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Previous Next Up Topic Engines / Subbug - Subaru Power / Suby engine test fit - Deserter Buggy (26127 hits)
By @Jeff GS Date 2007-07-29 15:03
Hey guys,

Here's the first majot test-fit of the Suby engine in my Deserter GS chassis!  The chassis has already been modified a bit from original, and it's getting more changes after this fit-test.



Couple of notes - the rear suspension as shown has really bad bump-steer.  This layout was my original plan, which is being updated to more of a "hybrid" 5-link/A-arm layout.  Outback exhaust manifolds didn't clear the lower frame rails, which will get some re-work to incorporate the suspension changes as well as clear the manifolds.  This will also require remotely locating the oil filter, the revised frame tube will run straight through the stock filter position, along side the Small Car engine mounts.  That's the easy part - just buy and bolt on a remote filter adapter (that'll be my 3rd try at re-doing this filter mount!).  A Canton remote filter and adapter will be used, along with Mocal oil thermostat and remote air-air oil cooler.

Cardboard "firewall" for mock-up will be exchanged with aluminum and steel tube structure - must be removable for engine R&R.
Jeff
By Ross C 356 Date 2007-08-03 13:15
Jeff
That looks very impressive, I like it!  If I ever do another car it will be a mid-engine like yours but wow, thats a lot of work.  Where did you get the rear spindle housings from, do they use VW spindles?  Nice work!
Ross
MN
By @Jeff GS Date 2007-08-05 20:58
Thanks Ross,
You're right on the money - a LOT of work!  I plug away at it when I can.

The rear uprights are NOS Chassis Shop parts.  They made these many years ago for drag cars, buggies, etc.  Yes - that's the neat thing, they take standard T1 IRS spindles, bearings, etc., though I'm running Thing stubs, custom brakes....  I lucked into them on the Samba a couple of years ago.  They've since been modified a little to take a larger top Hyme joint size. and a little trimming for my custom Wilwood brake set-up.

Jeff
By Ross C 356 Date 2007-08-06 03:08 Edited 2007-08-06 03:16
I am using CB performance type 1 stubs with Bus CV joints that I think is the same as your Thing Stubs.  Wilwood brake calipers are nice and light.  I have the heavier steel Porsche 914 calipers in the front and CB performance discs in the rear (with e-brake) and it stops extremely quick, maybe too quickly.  If I hammer the brakes at 50mph the oil light comes on.  I have a shortened oil pan that has the Subaru baffling still in it.  Do you think the oil could be moving so far forward from the G forces that the pump is sucking air?  Off road or in a bus application you would never see G forces like this.  Do you think something else could be going on to cause the oil light to come on when braking hard?
Ross
MN
By @Jeff GS Date 2007-08-06 11:13
Could be Ross.  The way the oil pan is shaped, it has a curved/angled portion at the flywheel end.  This would tend to cause the oil to follow that curve right up into the block whenever forces are moving in that direction - as in heavy braking on a rear engine car - or heavy acceleration in my mid-engine layout.  It's for this particular reason Outback recommended I use their special mid-engine pan, which has a small kick-out on that end replacing the curved portion.  The position of the oil pickup when shortened compounds the problem, as it naturally moves away from the flywheel end when shortened.  The Outback mid-pan also has a lenthened pick-up to counteract this.  The pick-up should be very close to the bottom of the pan when installed as well - if it's shortened too much that could possibly lead to oil starvation problems.

But I've never heard of that problem on a typical buggy install.  Make sure you're running the correct oil level - it should be the same 5 or so quarts as stock - even with the shortened oil pan.  You have to re-mark the dipstick to indicate the "new" correct full level.

Having the oil light come on should definitely be avoided!!!
Jeff
By Terry F Date 2007-08-20 04:29
Just found this on youtube, they mention "Jeff". Someone you know? LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCJ46Db7v5s
Terry
By @Jeff GS Date 2007-08-20 11:09
Yep - that "Jeff" would be me Terry.  :-)

That's my good friend Mike "Rags" in his CB turbo-VW powered GS, shortly after getting it in a drivable state (with another good friend Bob E. doing the filming).
FWIW - Mike's ability to build from scratch is beyond unbelievable!  The custom detail in this car is so over the top - you can't even simply look at the car in one take!  Every time you come back you see more neat things to check out.  This car pretty much sets the "standard" to judge all others by - just don't get yourself caught being judged in the same contest with "Rags"!  Super nice guy to boot.  Got a chance to drive this beauty on my recent trip up to MA and the Volksvair show - a total rush!

Here's Mike's car at the show:



The flip up hood is totally custom - not to mention the opening side pods for additional storage (with custom internal upholstered pockets for small items!):



For some reason - calling Mike's car a "Dune Buggy" just doesn't do justice!
Jeff
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-01-22 01:01 Edited 2008-01-22 01:28
Thought I'd update this old post - the Deserter GS rebuild has not been idle!

Here's a pic of the rear brakes I'm just finishing up.  These go onto the rear uprights seen in the pic at the beginning of the thread.  Took quite a bit of figuring to work out exactly how they will mount, but very pleased how they worked out.  Here's the outer side:



and "inside" view:



This was just a finished assembly mock-up - so the good grade 8 mounting hardware or e-brake cable mounts/clevis is not shown.  I'll probably be powder coating the brackets to protect the aluminum and make 'em look gooood!  Very happy to get this much accomplished!

My other big accomplishment this holiday weekend was coolant hose adapter - it's shown in my other link about my cooling system.
Jeff
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-01-22 02:33
I'll add in a couple more pics of some of the frame modifications.  This work was done in the late Fall, so it's currently a bit further along than shown in these pics - though also currently buttoned up in the shed where it's too cold to work on it!

Here's the new side rails I added to the frame.  These are "exoskeletal" and reside outside the main bodywork.  Most of this will be hidden behind the side pods:



Rear frame showing the modified lower rails.  This area was narrowed to allow for 2 things - 1) fitting the lower trailing arm ends closer together to eliminate rear bump steer, and 2) allow fitting standard Out"front" header pipes off the cylinder heads.  It also incoporates mounting bosses where the front of the engine will be supported.



Currently working on stuff I can do in my basement workshop 'till the Winter is over - like the brakes above.

Cheers,
Jeff
By Mel Adjusted Date 2008-01-22 08:30
Thats awsome.. Makes me wish I had one. Is that a EJ20 NA engine?
At my age.. Everything I buy comes with a lifetime guarantee..
http://mel-adjusted.zoints.com/
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-01-22 12:13
It's a turbo motor Lilgeico, and is the 2L version.  The WRX TD04 turbo will be positioned just behind the axle and up along the right side of the transaxle, between the transaxle and upper frame rail.  I've got some more mock-up work to do to finalize the exact positioning and orientation of the turbo/exhaust, etc.
I'll be slotting in an intercooler just aft of the throttle body and it should fit in well between the turbo and engine, above the transaxle.  Need to get a better look at the WRX intercooler, and in particular the inlet side with the Y tubing and fittings - one of those may work well on my GS?  Be a lot less $$$ than an aftermarket custom built unit!
Jeff
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-05-31 01:36
Been a while since an update.  I haven't been exactly idle, but progress has been a little less tha "blistering"!  LOL

Here's the latest pics since back from the welder's:





Next up is to re-fit the body and begin working on the extra mounting tabs and whdshield supports.

More to come.......

Jeff
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-07-22 23:58
More progress - another engine/trans fitting plus first body install with the new suspension in place!  Well, at least on one side.  In these shots the wheels are firmly bolted to the hubs, which are being supported by the new suspension.  First time all the elements have been installed together.  Engine and drivetrain are bolted in.  Beginning work on the new rear firewall, then working out the shift linkage.  It's slooooow, but at least progress!







Last, a shot of the rear suspension:



Still a long way from drivable, but getting there.

Cheers,
Jeff
By Jay H (X-20) (ManxVair CC) Date 2008-07-23 13:15
Its coming along well. Perfection takes time. Compromise is quick. Keep up the good work.

Jay
By Terry F Date 2008-07-24 02:41
Now I want a Deserter....  :D
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-07-24 21:08
Thanks guys,
It's definitely a labor of love!  Way too much $$$$ and time into this thing - frankly I nearly bit off more than I can chew - still trying to knaw it down!  Getting there though - every accomplishment is a big one!

Jeff
By Tom & Kathleen I 639 Date 2008-07-25 01:49
Nice work!  Keep it up so we can see the finished product.  I would love to do a project like that.  It was a strech just to put the Subi in an existing buggy.  Hope to see it in person some day.  Tom
Tom & Kathleen Manxter #16, Kick-Out SS #16 & FiberFab Buggy
Manx Club #1030, CVA, RBC, SCCA
By charliew Date 2008-07-30 21:05 Edited 2008-07-30 21:17
It looks great Jeff. The only thing I wonder about is the rear lower aframe suspension inner heim joint turned sideways. The suspension travel is on the ball where there is not a lot of motion area provided.  I'm not sure the heim is meant to be used like that. That is really a bunch of engineering though, more than I can ever try, I don't think I have that much time left.
One thing you might think about is a water to air IC as it won't be nearly as hard to place it in the car and the IC tubes can be much shorter and the turbo will work a lot better. Course it will need a small radiator also. I bet a motorcycle radiator would work. Water/Air IC kits are not very expensive. Some people hook them directly to the throttle body.
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-07-31 23:41
Hey Charles,
Through a bit of research Heim joints are actually supposed to be used so the direction of rotation doesn't align with the attachment thru-bolt.  That is, you don't want the rod end pivoting on the same axis as the "axle".  I've got high mis-alignment inserts in those rod ends, so plenty of angular travel there - especially with only about 4-5" of wheel travel.  Sometimes this isn't possible with the length of the connecting length, but all is checked out on this build and working very well!
Thought long and hard about the IC (I even have a W-air IC), but will go air-air for simplicity.  It's complicated enough as it is!

Just got some new bits in for the shift linkage - which looks to be a "whole 'nuther project"! and firewall tubing.  Trying to keep the firewall light but simple - plan is to use 0.049" wall 1" box tubing to form the frame, then skin with 0.050 and 0.032" aluminum, with foam insulation in between.  Lots of work still to do....

Jeff
By @Jeff GS Date 2008-09-15 23:47
Couple new pics to add to this post.  New firewall is about 90% completed, still have to weld the mounts into the frame and skin it.  I realized I may be adding more pieces to it, like engine cover catches, so need to work these out first.

Mostly did a final "trial" assembly on the rear suspension and cleared the bodywork to fit.  It's now all bolted in as it will be during final assembly.  Of course, it all still has to come back apart for paint and detail work!  This level of assembly allows me to work out a number of other issues - brake line routing, e-brake cable routing, axle length and exhaust placement.  These will all have to be trial assembled as well before it all comes back apart (I'm going to hate taking it all back apart!).  All I know is the available area is filling up fast and not too much room left!  :-)

Jeff



A look at the passenger side brakes and hub - sorry for the poor contrast!

By @Jeff GS Date 2008-12-06 23:04
Some more progress!  Finally getting the exhaust header close to completion and could locate the turbo.  Wasn't able to get the header 100% welded, but close enough for now to begin planning the plumbing paths and post turbo exhaust.





Pretty excited to get this far with it today - with temps in the mid-30's........

Jeff
By GreenMeanie Date 2008-12-15 04:11
That will be one sweet ride!
By Mel Adjusted Date 2008-12-15 04:19
Your looking really good there.....  Your going to have to learn how to drive all over again when you get that beasr running... It's gonna be a killer ride....
At my age.. Everything I buy comes with a lifetime guarantee..
http://mel-adjusted.zoints.com/
By dunelimo Date 2008-12-15 08:54
Please do not post any more pic's----I am spending too much time looking at them---a great build--I hope you are going to offer this in kit form when you are finished :-)
Previous Next Up Topic Engines / Subbug - Subaru Power / Suby engine test fit - Deserter Buggy (26127 hits)

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