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Previous Next Up Topic Public / Dune Buggy Build Advice / Oil filter orientation question (2701 hits)
By Thomas B 2944 Date 2018-03-22 01:40
     We'll try this again and see if someone can fix me up with an answer. I am trying to design/locate my full flow oil filter on the engine so that it:
     1. Looks right
     2. keeps it and the lines from contacting exhaust
     3. obtain clear access and ease of service

     Question:
        Is it OK to mount the oil filter upside down, so that the filter protrudes up rather than hangs down? My thoughts are to make a bracket that would attach the filter adapter to the #4 exhaust port. I would drill and tap filter adapter for a 1/4 or 3/8ths plug, thus allowing me to drain the filter before removing it. Doing this allows for shorter lengths of oil line as well as ease/neatness of hookup.

     At this point I will be using the EMPI 55-3373 dual exhaust for dual carbs. I know, loss of power but the artillery style exhaust is not my bag and with dual carbs my choices are limited.

     Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Tom
By Lloyd B 2301 Date 2018-03-23 05:37
Just from and uneducated view point.  If the oil is under pressure, what difference does it make in what location it is in?   Just my thoughts.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2018-03-24 05:10
That's the way I have mine mounted on my race engine. I have no problems with it.

brad

By Thomas B 2944 Date 2018-03-24 17:09
Lloyd and Brad,
     Thanks for getting back to me. I have been working on making the bracket that would mount the filter adapter on the #4 cylinder exhaust port. Brad, your picture is worth a thousand words. Never thought about mounting the filter at an angle, but would rather keep it level if possible so that it will drain better. The only thing that could change that is the exhaust positioning.
     I decided to substitute the drain plug for the oil temperature sender. This would allow me to keep the sender wiring up away from road hazards. I also noticed that the picture shows a "shorter" filter being used. All I have ever seen in pictures is the taller HP-1 length. I am concerned with vibration and the longer filter. Would you mind letting me know what number you are using? Nice to see that you are alive and well, Brad. Haven't seen you comment much as of late.
     Lloyd, I appreciate your input, whether "educated or not". The shame would be to have no input from others at all. I have been around engines for most of my life and I still question myself all the time.

     I'll post pictures of my progress later.

Tom
    
By Lloyd B 2301 Date 2018-03-25 05:46
Look forward to seeing more.
By Thomas B 2944 Date 2018-04-03 00:42
OK guys,
     Here's the end results. The only thing not installed yet is the oil temp sender, which is on order. I added a heat shield to help direct the heat away from the oil lines. The exhaust pipe is the one that came on the buggy when I purchased it so it is a little rusty, but it will serve to make up the parts that I needed. Got to save my nickels and dimes to order the new exhaust.
     I will post a write up and additional pictures in my build section, "Bump Stop Repair."

Hope this has helped someone else.
Tom

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By Lloyd B 2301 Date 2018-04-03 01:58
Looking Good!
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2018-04-03 13:55
Just a quick question on a set up like this....

Is there any concern that the filter totally drains out after shutoff and then the pump has to fill that filter at start up resulting in a delay of pressurizing the system?
By Thomas B 2944 Date 2018-04-03 20:44 Edited 2018-04-03 21:35
Hi Jeff,
     I had the same concerns when I had the idea to do it this way. I read many posts and could not come up with anything conclusive. I know that there are some OEM vehicles, can remember make and model off the top of my head, that have the oil filter on the top of the engine and still others that locate the filter about halfway up on the block with an access cover, both with access through the hood side of the engine. The OEM could have added check valves, I suppose.
     Then when Brad sent me the picture of his set-up, that kind of clinched if for me. Believe me, I would not want to try anything that could damage the engine after all this work, stress and, of course the $$$$.
     Maybe others could weigh in. In the meantime I will check with our oil filter supplier and see if they can muster up any other information for me.

Tom

Just had a thought, If the oil cooler is higher on the block why does it not drain on shut down? Would the, or either dual relief valves play a part in preventing drainage, either from the filter or the cooler?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2018-04-24 04:30
Your filter set up looks good although I might be inclined to extend my heat shield to run under the filter bracket or wrap that section of pipe with some exhaust wrap. I haven't had any problems with bleed back that I know of, oil pressure is instant on start up.

I still lurk here once in a while, not as much as I should. I'm actually building a race buggy for an all out assault on Bonneville. It's based on an cut up old body that I traded for a flip front for a beetle. I narrowed the body 11" and stretched the wheel base to 94" and have done a bunch of body mods to it to make it as clean as  possible. I think I'll build a little page for it here to show some of the highlights.

brad
By Thomas B 2944 Date 2018-04-25 00:00
Hi Brad, Jeff and others from the great state of Maine,
     Today was a real nice day, sunny with temps in the 60ish. We had the garage door open the afternoon at work, first time this year.
     Brad, thanks for the additional info on the oil filter mount. I did some more research, both on line and to a few area businesses that work on VWs. I found no information on the subject of oil filter orientation on-line. If there is, someone please direct me to the site. At the first business the guy said that he had never thought about it before but would not do it because ???? He never really gave me a reason other than he thought it was taking a chance. The second guy was a machine shop in the area that does a lot of VW engine work. He basically is of the mind set that, "If VW didn't do it you don't need it" He did say that he had played around with the full flow system a while back but took it off and went back to OEM oil filtration. He was also concerned that there could be some over pressure issues.
     I have studied the oil path diagrams and can't see why it would not work fine. So, I have decided to leave as is for now.
     Brad, I am waiting to get the exhaust on before I look to hard at filter shielding. Have been also thinking about make the shield as part of an oil drain, much like Jeeps and Rams. I have to install the oil temp sensor on the filter adapter before I make any decisions as this may effect shield position.
     Getting very close to the end of the "mock-up stage". I'll still have to do some touch-up paint work and seal the oil line fittings, remove the Allen Wrench that slide into the cooling system when a certain person drop it and finish installing the oil galley plug.
     Brad, I'll be watching for the new build. Sounds very interesting.

Tom
By Thomas B 2944 Date 2018-04-30 00:34
Hello from Maine,
     Finished the Mock-up Stage this evening. Just wanted to show the last shield that I constructed for the oil filter housing. Brad had suggested it but I had been thinking about making a shield with a combination oil filter drain sled. So here is what I came up with. Now all I have to do is strip it down to the long block so I can get it out of the cellar without damaging any of the parts that hang out. I will have some things to touch up/seal as I reassemble it out in the garage. At least I now at this point things fit and should go together quickly.
     I will post more picture in the Build Section. If you see anything that needs further attention please don't hesitate to add your thoughts and maybe a few prayers that it runs right.

Tom

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By Brad H 1498 Date 2018-05-01 03:48
Looks good. I just got an engine out of my basement a couple weeks ago. I strapped it down to a hand truck and pulled it up the stairs. Worked pretty good. I put some foam between the valve cover and the rest on the hand truck so it didn't scratch the valve cover and I used a ratchet strap to tie the other head to the handles.

brad
By Thomas B 2944 Date 2018-05-06 02:04
Hi Brad,
     Saw your post in the Build Section. I'll be watching as you progress. As for the "engine pull", I have to tear it down to the long block anyway. I'll just get my kids to help get it out into the garage where I will do the touch-up/ sealing and cleaning as I assemble it for the final time.
     Right now I am just taking some time off to work on another project that came up over the last couple months. I purchased my uncle's small metal lathe an will be tearing into it as it has not run in 25 years or so. Its just a 6 in Atlas that he used to service generator and starter commutators. I have wanted it for years but lost track of it until just a couple months ago.

Tom
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