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Previous Next Up Topic Public / Dune Buggy Build Advice / Rear toe in issue (27750 hits)
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-02 03:20
I have a rear axle alignment issue on a 1966 vw chassis , one side is toe'd in to much on the rear axle and needs moved somehow ?? I don't see any adjustment on the rear axle can anyone help
By Paul G Date 2014-04-02 04:04
You should be able to loosen the 3 bolts that hold the axle tube to the spring plate and move the axle back. You should have a small amount to tow out at ride height. Tow varies as the suspension moves up and down, so you will need to be at or near the final ride height to get it right.
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-04 02:55 Edited 2014-04-04 02:59
Can the engine be moved forward or back in there Mounts as this will move and change the toe in ??? If I don't have the slotted swing arm plates can they be purchased . It seems to be only one rear side , I noticed it driving on new pavement and on a smother drive way there is rear tire scuffing noise . I also noticed a reduced top end speed and tire wear on new tires.
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2014-04-04 13:21
Moving the engine/tanny back will cause more problems than it will solve. It will also not change the toe.

The slotted swing arms came from the factory so I can't imagine why you would not have them. You can always make the slots a little larger if needed.

You also want to make sure nothing is bent.

Step one though is to do the easiest first. Lossen the bolts and make an adjustment. Thats why they are there.
By Ron S 3875 Date 2014-04-04 14:57
I will assume that this is a swing axle that was disassembled or some rear axle work was done on.
If so the you should follow and check the spring plate geometry of the swing axles.  If they are not equal in the degree of adjustment a difference this error will affect toe in also.
http://www.vw-resource.com/rearaxle.html
The engine should not be moved from standard install location.
If there is no slots and the spring plates are at proper angles then I would recommend buying new arms with proper slots.  They are not overly expensive, and readily available. 
By Paul G Date 2014-04-05 23:01
Actually, moving the transaxle in our out would change the toe on a swingaxle Bug. It would also open up a lot of new problems, like cable and shift rod issues. If the mounts are aftermarket it is worth checking that they are locating the transaxle correctly. I've seen some trash aftermarket VW parts.
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-06 03:18 Edited 2014-04-06 03:22
I will need some snow to disappear ASAP so I can get it out of storage then I will check everything ,if I remember I did not see any slots in the swing arm plates but I will take a loser look this is my frame serial number and the frame looked original untouched or pieced together the old owner said his grandpa bought it new  .serial number 3811262
By Brad H 1498 Date 2014-04-10 04:36
Early springplates didn't have slots so you might have those. If the toe is off you can slot the plates with a die grinder and rotary burr.

brad
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-12 02:26
Snow is gone and I might be able to get dune buggy out ,can anyone find me pictures of canopy or cabin covers for me

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By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2014-04-12 04:14
You are not calling what I see in that picture your "toe in" are you?

That is not toe....thats positive camber
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-12 12:46
Yes you are correct that is showing the positive camber on the rear ,but the picture also shows the toe out that is creating my issue,
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2014-04-12 14:07
OK..the toe is much more difficult to see in the picture. I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page.

Nice buggy.
By Paul G Date 2014-04-12 19:26
It is riding far to high in the back, looks like the engine is out. As the rear suspension moves up and down from the zero camber point the tires tow in more and more. This is because the spring plates swing forward, pulling the axles with them, as they move up or down from level. If you change the ride height much from stock (change the camber much from stock) you will need to slot the spring plates. Raising the rear of a swingaxle Bug can also make for dicey handling on the street.
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-13 01:08
The buggy has shocks with coil springs on them , with three adults and two small kids the suspension drops a lot , could someone have put the coils on the springs to compensate for weak tourque springs ??
By Brad H 1498 Date 2014-04-14 03:00
If it were my car I would get rid of the coil  over shocks in the rear and readjust the spring plates. IT isn't that hard of a job and will make your car ride much nicer. The way it is now you have two pairs of springs in the rear with different spring rates fighting against each other as the suspension moves up and down. The coilovers are a bandaid at best.

brad
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-15 00:24
I thought everyone on here was from California , Go Roughriders  (when the snow leaves)
By Brad H 1498 Date 2014-04-15 06:08
Rider Pride Got my picture with the Grey Cup when it was here!!! Snow is about all gone not like last year

brad
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-17 23:31
If the buggy bottoms out with the coil over shocks installed ,can the rear torsion springs be weak or changed to stiffer versions .
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2014-04-18 02:26
Yes...both. They can be old and they can be upgraded.
By Ron S 3875 Date 2014-04-18 14:35
Fiberglass buggys are normally lighter then a stock Vdub, so the light torsion bars are able to take the load easily and provide a good ride.  But with many buggies larger tires are added and this will consume some of the gain in body weight.  There are three basic torsion bar sizes and can be checked by length of stick out at the front end of the bar.  No stick out softest torsion bar. 2 inch stick out medium bar, and 4 inch stick out stiff bar.  If you have the the lighter you can change to the heavier but you must change the torsion bars and the spring plates all in one.  You can not just change the bars.
But before you think the bars are gone and start changing bars and plates, check the degrees for the install for the plates.  If they were installed at incorrect angle the car will bottom out.
You can adjust ride height and thus changing bottoming out by spring plate angle this is done by spline teeth moving one tooth at a time (about 8-9deg shift).

http://www.vw-resource.com/rear_suspension.html

One other thing back to the original post on toe in, if your adjustment efforts still leave an issue then look carefully at that side torsion tube to make sure it is not bent.  If it was hit by a rock, curb etc. and is bent then the toe in will be off, and it could affect movement resulting in bottoming out.
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-18 22:43
What is the transmission mount area suppose to look like , mine looks like the mount has two bolts holding it together and the frame part looks bent and the engine end that has two mounts both mounts are done , if the engine and transmission are to far forward this might be my toe out issue I also checked and my swing arm plates are in the maximum toe in position without modifying the plate holes . I am sure that the mounts are the real issue , if I can get the engine back that will change the toe out issue , I will post pictures of the front mount and the engine pan clearance at that mount area , can someone post what it's suppose to look like .

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By Ron S 3875 Date 2014-04-19 14:35
In looking I would say you do have some bent parts as best i can tell.  It also looks lie maybe some modification was done in the one picture where the blots and nylock nuts are.

Check your transaxle ID number against your apn number and make sure your working the same year ranges so you can know that buying replacement mounts are stock style not a need for adapter style mounts.

You can also see what the stock mounts look like based on year of the transaxle and pan.  And see if what you have is correct looking.  Any on line VW parts house will have pictures to compare to your mounts.

Pan forward mount location and the horns should be check when you pull the transaxle for flat surfaces and true lines with no bends and such.  a good visual look at the horns will show any bending.

http://www.vw-resource.com/transaxle.html

http://image.mamotorworksmedia.com/production/website/articlefiles/community/VW%20Transaxle.pdf

http://www.transworks.biz/installation.html
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-20 19:34
Ok I took some pictures with two peopl in it 350 lbs total and it doesn't squat much the other picture of the swing arm is the Vdub with no weight( people )in it ,it doesn't move much but I always have a negative camber and a lot of toe out . I will change the transaxle mount and repair it's frame bracket because it is bent forward .i am also thinking I need to move the swing arm on the torque shun spring one groove so it rides higher and then I can remove the coil springs off the shocks that the previous owner had put one .

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By Ron S 3875 Date 2014-04-21 16:47
I am attaching a couple pics of the frame at the forward transaxle mount.
When you pull engine, transaxle, and such you can pull the swing arms and torsion bars inspect it all for rust and such.
Check your frame horns.
Check the front mount and rear mounts.

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By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-22 03:27
Looked at your pictures of the front transaxle frame mount bracket , my bracket is bent forward and my rubber mount unit is bent which is not normal . My local parts store is findings new mounts and then I will tear it down and this should help a lot with the rear alignment .
By Michael T 1299 Date 2014-04-24 01:31
Something is wrong here. With the transaxle pushed forward like that you will end up with toe-out. Not toe-in.

Front of the tires farther apart than the rear is toe-out.

Mike T
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-24 04:21
Ya I need to change my thread heading to read toe out , I started the thread while the a dub was in storage and I now have a better diagnosis of what is going on .
By Michael T 1299 Date 2014-04-24 05:41
You might be able to straighten that front mount bracket if you are careful. The other option is to cut the bent one off and weld on a new one. I think some vendors carry that mount bracket.

Was the buggy ever rear ended? That would do the damage your pictures show.

Mike T
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-04-26 16:57
It shows no other damage to the frame work I will be pulling the engine and then transmission this weekend . So I will get a better look .
By kevin w 3821 Date 2014-07-12 19:51
Finally got the buggy tore down , found the front transmission mount was bent forward about 1/2 inch the mount was pulled together with extra bolts that flattened the rubber between the mounting , the rear mounts on the bell housing where ripped apart and where 1/2-3/4 of an inch forward ,the main frame that the bell housing mounts bolted to was wearing into the engine , someone had drilled a new dimple in the transmission shifter shaft so the coupler would work , couldn't figure out why before it shifted weird . Got new mounts got new CV boots figured I might as well change them as they where resting on the frame horns , moved the swing arms down one notch to maintain better ride height when I have passengers . All of this caused so much toe out that it was wearing tires and steered like I was on riding on marbles.
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