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Previous Next Up Topic Public / Dune Buggy Build Advice / engine ID (24273 hits)
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-01-27 16:40
Question
my engine i have for Allison i am building now has id number AB 148029
I look up number on the samba and it says 1300 cc something like 1971 or so not clear
I look at another site and they say these are over the counter engine ( the AB) 1966-early 70's or so.
I believe it is 1600 cc duel port
Any help would be appreciated because i am going to be ordering some new parts like a dog house in a few weeks
Thanks
Andy

By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-01-27 23:14
What are you buying Andrew?

If it's a 1600 DP then buy you parts for that. The things that are different between all the 40hp and later engine is the oil galley size for the pump and changing having the depth of the pump becasue the cam went from a flat surface to a dished mounting surface for the gear. One thing to check extrenally if it is 71 and later is how many oil relief plugs it has on the bottom drivers side of the case. If there are 2 plugs with slots in them it's a 71 and later. If not it's pre 71 The earlier cases also have a smaller oil galley going to the cooler so if it's an early motor you need special seals to put a doghouse on it.

Can you post a few over all shots of the motor Preferably stripped of tins, then we can get a good look at what you got.

brad
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-01-28 22:31 Edited 2013-01-28 22:35
here are some pics
as for parts not sure what is needed besides new dog house without heat and cooling tins
What is the min amount of tin recomended?
i am not interested in chrome just going to paint
thanks
\Andy

By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-01-29 16:20
Buy tins for a 1600 DP motor. The minimum you need is the shroud and the head tins. If the motor was apart I would tell you to get the Type 3 style "cool tins" that fit under the cylinders but you should be alright with a stock motor. I ran without them for years. If you ever have the heads off or build somehting bigger I would put them on. The reason being they guide the air around the cylinders better to cool them more evenly. Especially if you don't run the bottom "sled tins" Which is hard to do with a buggy exhaust or header system. But like I said, I ran it with just the stock T1 deflectors, head tins and shroud for years.

You can also get rid of the pulley tin if you want, it's not doing anything on a buggy and makes for a cleaner look

brad
By KC Date 2013-01-29 19:38
What you have there my friend is a non US spec 1300 DP.
Yep, I said a 1300 DP. Common everywhere in the world but the US of A.
I had one in a 1302 that came from Japan, oem engine.
I bet it has been built back as a 1600 though.
They are great little engines, the original intake was a DP intake with a SP flange on it, yours has been replaced.
The one I had had a 32 PICT 3 carb on it, not a type-o.  Had Domed pistons, ran 10.7 (or so) / 1 compression and liked High test.  It made like 53 hp and was very comparable to my 1600 DP up until about 70 mph where it just ran out of juice.
Any way it is a standard single relief case IIRC.
Treat it like a 1500 SP case that has been rebuilt as a 1600 and you will be happy.
It is a shame that the OEM Pistons are gone, they make a really nice '66 1300 SP engine with those Pistons.
KC
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-01-29 23:37
okay so i have a frankinstien engine???
do i still buy the 1600 dp tin? or 1600 single port tin??
thanksfor everyones help!!
andy
By Hank M 950 Date 2013-01-30 00:43
so was it the SN that let you determine what engine it is or was it something in the photos?just curious
By Daytona Ken Date 2013-01-30 01:13
After Market Cases
Code -Year -Engine -Remarks
F1 - 13/1600
F2 - 13/1600
DO - 40-HP part when last digit is "X"
D1 - Some times a 40-HP part
AB - 66-79 - 1600 - Built since '73 in Mexico, Brazil and Germany
AK - 67-74 - 15/1600
AM - 1600
AS - sometimes listed as a Super Beetle original case '73 and later.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-01-30 02:22
The intake manifolds determine the tin. Get the dual port tin.

brad
By Hank M 950 Date 2013-01-31 00:49
Thanks for the info and the link Ken
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-01 01:37
thnks everyone
question now kind of directed to Brad for tin advice he was kind enough to give me
i need a new fan shroud dog house style 71 and up? has oil cooler on back.
I want a paintable one no heat ducts and many sites sell them as 36 hp but do not say duel port or years so i want to make sure i get right one.
I also want bare min of cooling tins and Brad recomended some.
More i read about cooling tins want to make sure i pick right ones and do not have to take engine apart to attach.
Anyone able to sugest link where i can buy these at reasonable price? With right part number?
Just a little confused on all the stuff they sell
also would appreciate any advice since it am planing to just clean up engine and paint it etc.
Not looking into major tear down. Hope engine has already been gone thru in past life
Thanks
Andy
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-02-01 06:10
The shroud is dictated by the type of oil cooler not the style of head. They will fit on either style of head tins. I've heard good things about the Scat tins. I have some generic stuff from CIP1 that is crap to try and fit and it stamped out of old pop cans. I've had good service from Peirside parts and Aircooled.net.

Here's some parts for you to look at

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Bugpack-36hp-Doghouse-Cooler-Exhaust-Tin-p/dhexhausttin.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Bugpack-36HP-Doghouse-Cooler-Cover-Tin-p/dhcoolercover.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SCAT-Dual-Port-Cylinder-Tin-Shrouds-Pair-25093-p/25093.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SCAT-36hp-Doghouse-Fan-Shroud-25091-p/scat-doghouse-fan-shroud.htm

These are the cool tins I was talking about, but like I said I ran without them for years.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Cylinder-Cool-Tin-All-Bores-T1-Based-Engines-Pr-p/4526.htm

If you don't want to run the cool tins you could run these
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Lower-Engine-Tin-Sled-Tins-Heater-Channel-Tins-p/sled-tin-set-3-pc.htm

brad
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-01 12:35
thanks Brad
i see a lot of tin out there and i bought some crappy stuff in the past and do not want to do it again.
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-05 23:34
okay another question related to my engine
I have this engine and i just bought a new starter 12 volt
first one on this link
http://air-cooled-vw-parts-search.mamotorworkstv.com/search?p=Q&asug=starter&w=starter
this will bolt in to transmission and this will fit engine and flywheel?
I hope so because this is being converted to 12 volt and i already have 12 v stater so i think this is good but looking at both starters i have a little longer of shaft and teeth than the 6 volt i took out
Thanks
Andy

By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-02-06 00:20
What tranny and what flywheel do you have?

Tranny - Swing axle or IRS
Flywheel - 180mm or 200mm

Does the old starter say 6 volt on it by any chance?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-02-06 01:08
If you have a 200mm clutch on the motor the 12V starter will work, unless someone jammed a rare '66 only transporter flywheel on it. You will need to clearance the bellhousing to fit the bigger flywheel and you will need a conversion bushing for the shaft on the starter. It fits in the tranny where the shaft goes into that hole in the dimple for the starter. If the starter you took out if 12V you won't need to do anything except put in the new starter. Clean the suface that the starter bolts up against so you get a good ground on the transaxle for the starter. They usually corrode between the starter and tranny

brad
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-02-06 04:28
I think brad is assuming you have a swing axle tranny because you don't need to clearance an IRS tranny for the 200mm flywheel. The same goes for the bushing....only needed when going from a 6v tranny housing to a 12v. If you have an IRS you are good to go.

You should have just picked up a autostick starter at Autozone for alot cheaper with a lifetime warranty. But since you already have that then you can make it work.
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-06 12:34 Edited 2013-02-06 12:36
old starter does say 6 volt but the engine is from later and did not come with car. it was from differnt owner and has new clutch in it. not sure about flywheel but i think it is newer than 66. any way to tell what fly wheel is??do i measure Where?
buggy pan, tranny etc is from a 1966 donner
thanks
Andy
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-02-06 16:56
Measure the distance across the flywheel. Approximately 7 1/8" = 180mm. 7 7/8 = 200mm.

Your pan may have been converted from swing to IRS. A picture of your tranny would help. Also a couple of picture from inside the "bellhousing" near each hole for the engine studs will allow us to see if it was clearanced for the 200mm flywheel.

To summarize: You may have a 180mm flywheel on the engine (it came with one right?) that will not work with that starter (not likely that it is a 180mm if it came with the engine). You may have a 200mm flywheel which will work with that starter. If you have a 200mm flywheel then your swing axle tranny (if you have one) will need to be clearanced if it is not clearanced already.

So...putting everything together. You say the engine did not come with the car. If it came with a flywheel it is likely a 200mm flywheel and you will need a 200mm clutch set up. The new starter will likely work with the flywheel you have if its 200mm. If the buggy was originally build with a 6v 180mm flywheel and you are now trying to stuff the new engine into the old 6volt swing axle it will need to be clearanced.
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-06 19:10 Edited 2013-02-06 19:13
I am betting it is a 200 mm flywheel because newer engine
I will measure tonight
engine came with new clutch presure plate etc.
I am thinking it has not been clearance and i am trying to put a newre engine in older car.
Starter was 6 volt and that is my reasoning.
so if my engine has 200 mm flywheel how do i make engine clearance?
Also Brad that bushing is it the bushing attached to starter i bought (it is zip tied)
I will post pictures hopefully tonight and measure if i can.
Thanks for all your help
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-02-06 19:19 Edited 2013-02-06 19:22
Great read here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=275401&highlight=200mm+swingaxle

You likely have a replacement bushing that was intented for a 12v starter into an IRS tranny. Since you are attempting to install a 12v starter into a 6v tranny you need a special bushing:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D5765

Oh...one more thing. I am now thinking that its a measurement across the flywheel surface (where the clutch disc sits) that you want to take versus the overall diameter of the entire flywheel. Either way.....measure both. One of them will either be about 7 1/8" or 7 7/8"
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-06 19:30
thaks
i get it now and will check asap
now my new starter came with bushing. zipp tied to it in picture.
That is what i need right?
thanks again
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-02-06 19:37
You likely have a replacement bushing that was intented for a 12v starter into an IRS tranny. Since you are attempting to install a 12v starter into a 6v tranny you need a special bushing:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D5765
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-07 00:59
It is almost  8" so 200mm it is
I will have make bell housing large to fit
Thanks everyone for help
Could not do it without your help
Andy
By Kellison Jim Date 2013-02-07 02:48
Andrew, This post really helped me out when I had to do the same thing to my Super T. It took me forever to find this post but here it is.....
http://www.dunebuggyarchives.com/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=2248
Kellison Jim
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-16 21:26
I got the starter bushing in mail today and may work on it tomorrow.
question is there a old bushing i need to remove or will this just slide in?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-02-16 23:14
There should be a bushing in there. You can run  tap in the bushing and then know it back out through the bellhousing side with a soft punch or drift through the hole in the front. If the new one is made from oilite (a pourous material) you fill the inside with oil and can pinch it beteen your fingers from the ends and it will drive oil into the bushing. Keep adding oil till it comes out of the outside of the bushing. Oilite is kind of grainy looking. Not sure if they still make them though for this app.

brad
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-17 14:12
looks like one is in there
thanks
andy
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-20 18:13
i bought a new dog house shroud today and it came with ducts.
old on i have does not have these on engine
not sure where they go and if i need them
any advise appreciated
thanks
Andy

By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-02-20 18:52
Looking at the doghouse they attach to the side and then under. They are designed to deflect the hot air from the oil cooler downward.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-02-21 14:15
The one on the far right bolts on first. You'll see a hole in the fan shroud low on the back on the drivers side. then the other one bolts on to connect the cooler housing and chimney.

brad
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-21 14:53
kind of thought so but was not sure
Is this something i need?
thanks
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-02-21 17:13
You are going to get both answers to that question.

Here is mine and the logic behind it:
They were originally designed to deflect the air down and away from the fan inlet. Logically you don't want all that hot air being sucked into the fan. Given that buggy bodies are so wide open and the airflow around that area is so very much different I say there is no need to run them. You can if you want. You don't have to if you don't want to.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-02-21 21:35
I didn't run them on my smaller motors and never hada problem,  but all my big engines get them. I figure it can't hurt. I say if you got 'em use 'em. Or they can collect dust in a box for a couple of decades LOL

brad
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-25 23:19 Edited 2013-02-26 12:37
Brad
I ordered a kit and these tins showed up and i am not sure where or how to attach then.
Any pictures?
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Cylinder-Cool-Tin-All-Bores-T1-Based-Engines-Pr-p/4526.htm
do these require taking push rods off?
Thanks
Andy
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-02-27 04:44
Yep, they fit under the cylinders above the pushrods. As long as you have the deflector plates under there you will be OK. but you can put them on. These "cool tins" area good idea to use if you aren't running all the factory bottom sled tins as they dirrect the air around the cylinders making for more even cooling of them. Without all the factory bottom tin the air gets blown all over the place and can lead to hotspots, I ran just he flat plates for years with no bottom tin and never had problems so don't sweat it if you don't want to pull the heads off to put them on. They just clip in on the bottom head studs.

brad
By andrew s 1965 Date 2013-02-27 12:21
thanks I kind of knew that and am not going to tear engine down unless there is an issue
Previous Next Up Topic Public / Dune Buggy Build Advice / engine ID (24273 hits)

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