the Dune Buggy Archives
DBA Forum - Not logged in
Previous Next Up Topic Engines / Subbug - Subaru Power / Fitting an EJ in a Bug (9206 hits)
By Paul Moran (DBA Architect) Date 2006-11-16 16:26 Edited 2006-11-16 17:36
(Moving this from Yahoo Groups into here - Paul...)

The way it is right now, my 911-01 transmission is installed in such a way the end of the bell housing is flushed with the rear transmission mounts similar to the T-1 transmission.  Since it is a 911-01 transmission, the input shaft may be higher than the T-1 input shaft.  I should measure it.  The length of the EJ20TT or EJ20T from the surface where the bell housing mates to the the end surface of the cam covers is approximately is 15 inches.  I have space inside but not enough for clearances or mistakes.  I am still debating about the EJ20TT or the EJ22.  When you mentioned the torsion housing boxed in, what do you mean?  If I push the transmission farther in, then the nosecone will hit the the torsion housing.  As installed, I only have .500 to 1.00 inch clearance.

If  I pushed it in 1.00-2.00 inch then I have to grind or cut the torsion housing and then somehow brace it since it has less material.

I thought about the EJ22 on how it is being used in the Vanagons.  If that EJ22 can move the Vanagon then it should be really powerful for the Bug.  I had a Vanagon with an EJ22T.  It was rated 160 hp.  It was fast.  It felt like anything beyond the EJ22T power was considered useless.  The suspension, brakes, chassis, steering was not made for that kind of power.

The EJ20T or the EJ20TT in a Bug may be too powerful to a point where it is useless because the complete car structure was not designed for that kind power.

What do you think????

Carlo

--- Simon Thompson wrote:

> Carlo.... On early cars the timing covers will protrude through the
> guards... I'm pretty sure they do on late bugs also... The way we have
> gotten around the problem is to move the entire drive line forward....
> With a standard T1 transaxle you can get a quad cam engine under the
> guards on a late car with some trimming of the body... But it will not
> be seen from the outside of the car. In an early car it still doesn't
> fit..... So we have cut through the torsion housing, boxed in the
> housing and moved the transaxle further forward..... You will also
> need to cut up the firewall to fit the OG RS air-to-water intercooler
> to make it all work....
>
> Best of luck....
>
> Simon

>> On 16/11/06 3:04 AM, "Carlo Galutera" wrote:
>>
>> I bought the stock version.  The fans may come from
>> any existing cars that I find in the junkyard.  I am
>> not there yet.  The shroud will most likely be out of
>> fiberglass or sheet metal.  BTW,  I am having second
>> thoughts about using the EJ20T.  I might end up using
>> an EJ22.  Those quad cam covers on the EJ20T might stick out of the
>> fender.  My measurements last night came very close.
>>
>> Carlo
>>
>>> --- Matt wrote:
>>>
>>> Carlo,  Good to hear someone else is thinking of that
>>> Jeep radiator.  Are you getting a stock factory one,
>>> or an aluminum one?  What are your plans for fans and shroud?
>>>
>>>> --- Carlo Galutera wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's great.  Keep in touch so we can help each other out.
>>>> The radiator I am using is a brand new one from a Jeep
>>>> Cherokee 4.0L.  It's only 10 inches tall but 36
>>>> inches wide.  It's the width that makes it a problem but
>>>> it can be done.  I just cut an opening by the wheel well.
>>>>
>>>> My transmission is from a 911-01 5 speed tranny.
>>>> It bolted exactly where the original transmission. The
>>>> front mounts I had to fabricate.
>>>>
>>>> I will probably buy my engine from Outback Motors in
>>>> Southern California.  I was there last Friday to talk
>>>> to them and inspect their place.  I saw 2 motors, a
>>>> 2.5 SOHC N/A and 2.0 DOHC Single Turbo. From my
>>>> inspection, the 2.5 SOHC N/A is an easy fit because
>>>> the  cam covers are not tall enough to protrude from
>>>> the bodywork.  There will be some cutting internally.
>>>> I just don't want to see those cam covers exposed
>>>> from the exterior of the car.  The 2.0 DOHC Single
>>>> Turbo has a bigger cam cover because it is a quad cam.
>>>>  Hopefully it doesn't stick out.  The 2.0 is $1000 and
>>>> the 2.5 is $1800.  They do run the engines to make
>>>> sure everything is in order.  I might buy my 2.0 next
>>>> week depending on my schedule.
>>>> Carlo

Chicago, IL
EMPI Imp 1002 ('69)/Subaru EJ20 Turbo/LinkPlus ECU
By @Jeff GS Date 2006-11-16 16:44
Carlo,
One trick I've seen used for extra room in a Bug engine compt. is to flip the rear trans mount around.  This effectively shifts the engine and trans slightly closer to the torsion housing, providing a little extra room out back.  I haven't done this myself, but have seen pics of it on the 'net.  It requires some other related modifications (shortening the shifter linkage for one), but these are relatively minor in the grand scheme of an engine swap.

Jeff
By Carlo G 306 Date 2006-11-16 16:56
I will take pictures of it tonight.  I understand about flipping the rear trans mount around.  I will also measure it against a standard bug.  I have 2 in my garage.  My 1302 is the one getting the EJ.  Recalling from memory.  On a standard T-1 transmission, if the rear trans mount was flipped, then the tranny can move forward.  The front transmission mount will be modified.  In doing this, a gain of 1-2 inches in room for the EJ.  In a Porsche 911-01 and 914 transmission, without flipping the rear trans mount, the face of the first gear cover is just barely clearing the torsion housing.  I think the Porsche 914, 911-01 is 1 inch longer than the T-1 tranny.  This is why I am contemplating about the EJ20T or the EJ20TT.  I will take pictures of it tonight for comparison and send it tomorrow.

Carlo
By @Jeff GS Date 2006-11-17 19:32
An outfit in Germany makes a Porsche to VW trans conversion kit that might help you out.  I believe it has a shortened nose-cone for the trans, plus a nifty front mount.
http://www.bugat5speed.de/cms/

Their web site is in German, but the owner does work via email in English, plus they have a US distributor through the German Look Forum:
http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49

This looks like a super way to go for swapping in the Porsche trans, folks on the Germanlook forum have been very impressed with the parts.

Jeff
By Carlo G 306 Date 2006-11-18 19:21 Edited 2006-11-18 19:31
Here is the picture.  The transmission clearance from the torsion housing is about .50 inch.  I do not know how to add more pictures in the same reply.

Attachment: TorsionHOusing.jpg (155.1k)
By Simon T 315 Date 2006-11-21 14:32
Hey Carlo.....

On the bug (1960 body) conversion we are doing now, we cut through the torsion housing and pushed the whole (903 Sportamatic with manual change conversion) transaxle forward around 100mm. This transaxle is similar in length to the 901/915 manual box.... The nose cone is now inline with the front edge of the torsion housing tube. You must box the housing in and build a tunnel cage around the transaxle housing to regain torsional strength in that area.... We have fitted the inner torsion bar spline boss on either side of the transaxle.... Not sure of the correct measurement, and we are running stock length swingaxle torsion bars with IRS springplates..... As the car is set very low, the added bonus of this set-up is we are getting some much needed CV angle back into the equation too! We can now fit the EJ20T (the EJ20TT in not a worthwhile conversion IMHO, as the added complexity of the engine does not provide any measurable benefits in drivability, reliability or power... And its tougher to make it fit a VW engine bay!) under the engine lid and inside the stock guards with out any issues.... The first EJ20T conversion (manual TI box) we did was in a Notch some 10 years ago, and that car is a rocket. The engine is soon to be upgraded to a 206kw Sti engine.... As for having too much power... Can't be done!... :-)   I have an EG33 (240hp/310nM) in my Vanagon with 5 speed, and its a beaut....

Best of luck....

Simon
Previous Next Up Topic Engines / Subbug - Subaru Power / Fitting an EJ in a Bug (9206 hits)

Powered by mwForum 2.10.2 © 1999-2007 Markus Wichitill