Poll Paint roll cage to match paint job(which is unknown) or powdercoat to match chassis? (Closed)
By HotTub Date 2010-01-25 05:32 Edited 2010-01-31 01:13
Here are some pics from the beginning of my street buggy build. Never done this before...helped my dad a little on his '32 Chevy 5-window build. Feel free to throw advice, make fun, or ask questions....
By Brian B 1822 Date 2010-01-25 11:52
I'll bite. Where are the pics?
Brian Boggs,Katy Texas
ThunderBug, Surfer GT, 49 Dodge
By HotTub Date 2010-01-26 03:26 Edited 2010-01-26 03:44
Damn computers! I tried downloading pics until the we hours (and they appear to be below the max size)...NO JOY! I'll check with IT (my sister) and try again.
Ok...my pics suck. I'll try to get better ones.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-01-26 14:07
VERY NICE job on the floors. Love the hood on the car too. It's probably a little late now, but, when I built my car the first time with a floor pan I did as you did and cut out the centers and welded in sheet metal (ddin't have a bead roller though). I extended the floors out under the outer hat section and welded the floor in both sides forming a box that made the floor as strong as possible without using a box tube perimeter frame.
________/ \_____ outer hat section
____________ ___________ floor
PS I use the MS Paint to resize my photos. Go to Image-stretch/skew- 45-50% works well
By HotTub Date 2010-01-26 16:23
Thanks! I like your idea...I'm setting my pans on top of that ledge for a little extra support and will then weld on both sides...should do about the same thing as you were talking(I think)...
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-01-26 20:06
Well it won't be AS strong. It is the square box form that will give it the best strength. you are making a basic "H" beam with an extended side. But if you can get good welds on both sides it should be strong.
_________________ ________________ floor
----------- ----------- outer channel
weak point weak point
By HotTub Date 2010-01-31 01:16
Alright..thanks for the pic advice. Here are more pics.
By HotTub Date 2010-01-31 01:37 Edited 2010-01-31 01:44
Last night my father and I stayed at work to use the welder. My poor dad spent 16.5 hours straight at that place(8 of it actually WORKING and the rest helping me). Aside from setting me on fire, his help was GREATLY appreciated. We welded in the floor pans and cut/welded in the rear torsion adjuster. THANKS DADDY! Tomorrow I'll mock up the roll cage so I can make the bases and finish the cage (which is for many things EXCEPT safety). Once that is done, I believe it's off to sandblasting and then back to work for the powdercoating. CAN'T WAIT! It'll be the motivation I need to keep at this...seeing that gorgeous chassis/cage in a fresh coat of Texture Black. Can anybody tell me what brand of buggy this is? I have no clue...can't figure out what engine it is either...and my chassis has a weird number that doesn't look like a VW # and the title just says 1969 Volkswagen.
By HotTub Date 2010-02-08 05:43
I've been working on my cage since welding in the torsion adjuster and pans. Got the front and rear hoops bolted in tonight. Tomorrow night pops n I will weld in the cross members. Here's a couple pics of the mock-up. I'm getting so excited....I might do the pee pee dance
By Brian B 1822 Date 2010-02-08 11:45
Be careful where you put the bottom of the rear hoop. If it stays where its at you'll lose valuable seat room. It's already a tight fit at that point and to take away another two inches is trouble.
Brian Boggs,Katy Texas
ThunderBug, Surfer GT, 49 Dodge
By HotTub Date 2010-02-08 17:50
Thanks Brian! I don't have seats and won't have the cash for awhile. I've sat on a box that I estimate to be about the same height as the base of the seat. I think where I have it and more so the angle should work out. I'm 6 foot. I may be wrong and haveto drive folded in half! Lol
By Brian B 1822 Date 2010-02-08 20:56
If it was me I would plant it(the roll bar) in the corner and then bend the top half of the hoop back to match the angle you want. I am shorter than you and my seat sits further back than that.
Brian Boggs,Katy Texas
ThunderBug, Surfer GT, 49 Dodge
By HotTub Date 2010-02-08 21:57
Excellent ide-er....may do that....THANK YOU! Sometimes ur head is in the project too deep and can't think of that stuff...2nd set of eyes are always good.
By HotTub Date 2010-02-14 06:08
I decided to stick with the cage the way it is since I already drilled the holes and would have to rebend the rear hoop and add extensions to it. Will definitely keep that in mind next time Got the cage done and smoothed the welds tonight. Just a couple more minor things to do and then it's off to the sandblaster and then work for powder.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-02-15 01:27
I agree with Brian, short of fiberglass clamshell seats you're not going to have room for anything. The rearmost corners would have been a much better and stronger place to put the cage bases. Looks cool though with the rakes on the bars following the windscreen like that, I just think that your seat choices are going to be extremely limited. Really like the curved lateral bars, nice touch.
By Allison Daytona Ken Date 2010-02-15 02:31
It will still work just bend and kick the rear roll bar back from the back seat bottom to the floor on both sides, that will give you even more front seat room, See us Johnny Rebs have good ideas sometimes lol, Ken........
By HotTub Date 2010-02-19 01:17
I agree with your ideas 100%...it's just done and I don't feel like calling out more favors from the friends than I have to. I'll deal. The way I'm sitting in the pic, I have my legs completely straight...so I have room to work with.
My big challenge now is finding L.E.D.s I can use for the roll cage lighting. The chassis is sand blasted and ready for powder. Suppose to get powdered Monday (was suppose to today, but they didn't feel my chassis was worth firing up the oven for!--NO LOVE FOR THE BUGGIES!). Going with a Texture Black powder.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-02-19 13:53
Pan looks GREAT Tommy even just sandblasted, nice job on the floors. Are you gonna powdercoat the rest of the running gear too? Wasn't being mean about your cage, don't take it like that, sorry if it sounded like it. Just I've built a few of these things and what I suggested seems to work best, but I understand where your coming from. I now have to fit a battery box that was made by a buddy, but, doesn't fit the car, but don't want to ask him to build another. I' know you'll build it so it works for you. Like I said really liked the rake on your bars, very aggressive looking. Can't wait to see the finished pan in black. Did you descide if you are going to PC the rollcage or paint to match body yet?
By HotTub Date 2010-02-19 18:39
No worries...didn't take it as mean at all. Its an awesome idea and I wouldn't have hesitated for a second to do it had it not already been done. I may powder the cage only cuz I don't have the slightest clue how I'll paint it yet. Should b extensive being that I custom paint...just not sure on design or colors yet. Also not sure if I will powder the restor not...depends on if I still work here and how far I have to tear things apart.
By HotTub Date 2010-02-20 21:09
Sooo.....anybody know what these springs around the diameter of the drum are for? To me, they don't look like they are of any purpose.
By Sandman 2049 Date 2010-02-21 04:18
They are there to dampen vibrations.
By HotTub Date 2010-02-21 15:41
Yeah, I still don't get it. How does that work?
By Sandman 2049 Date 2010-02-21 15:51
Vibrations cause noise and I guess you could say it is like a lil vibrating horn and you put your finger on it and your finger interfears with the vibration lessening the vibrations because your finger is absorbing some of the vibrations. Wish I could explain it better for you ! Sorry.
By HotTub Date 2010-02-21 16:13
The vibrations of the wheels get absorbed into the spring, so to speak?
By Sandman 2049 Date 2010-02-21 18:51
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-02-22 01:22
It's to dampen the harmonics caused by the friction between the brake shoes and drum and stops any squeaking or groaning noises from the drums under braking. The springs absorb the vibration that causes the noise. We use the same thing when turning brake drums on a lathe. Without them the drum starts to vibrate causing a droning noise and gets so bads that the cutters chatter on the brake surface causing uneven cuts
By HotTub Date 2010-02-22 01:42
Interesting...I was looking at them, thinking, what the eff do I need these for. I'm missing one, so, I was wondering if I should buy 1 or throw three out. Thanks for answering my question.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-02-22 16:34
I doubt you'll find a new one to buy. I don't know if they were a factory installed item or a fix put on later. Personally I'd pitch 'em
By Steve P 1712 Date 2010-02-23 01:24
I like the Crager wheel adapters,match mine.Nice job, I approve.
By HotTub Date 2010-02-23 03:15
Thanks..unfortunately only the two in the rear are that style. The front two are more of a star shape. Well, the pan is hot and fresh outta the oven. In perfect tradition(of my shitty luck), it was sitting on a cart after the oven and I grabbed it and checked to see if it was on the cart solidly. It WAS. I pushed the cart 10 feet and started to steer the cart and looked to see where I was going, looked down just in time to see the bottom slide out and it ripped my hand open on the way down....as well as put a small dent in the floor and a scrap in the powder....CURSE YOU KARMA!(that's why this stuff happens ) Anyway, at least the bad luck is worked out and I can move on.
By HotTub Date 2010-04-19 02:41
Got the roll cage all set up with L.E.D.s and powder coat. Here's a couple pics. I posted a thread in "Dune Buggy Build Advice" giving a more extensive explanation and How To. Here's the next project...the front beam. Do I want to narrow? What are the consequences? I saw your tip on doing away with the top torsion bar as buggies are too light to need both. What I don't get is...if you replace in with the 3/4" square bar...don't you lose the "independent" part of the front suspension? What am I missing?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-04-19 14:06
The 3/4 inch bar will act as a sway bar, which will give you better handling in corners on the street. Yes it effectively joints both sides and you'll lose the "independance" but it's not a bad thing. If you want to go a cheapper route, you could also just reinstall the upper springs in the upper after you have cut out the center section. It will act as a lighter swaybar.
To do this put the arms and springs in. Put the grub screw in on one arm and push that arm in as far as it will go. I hold mine in with a with a bungee cord stretched as tight as I can get it to hold the arm in as tight as possible. Then I go to the other side and tap the arm tight with a hammer. I then use a center punch and mark the springs in through the grub screw hole and grind a new relief for the grub screw to fit into the springs. The reason for doing this is to keep the upper arms tight to the beam, because if you just use the existing holes the arms will walk back and forth as you turn. If you use a 3/4 inch br do the same thing to keep the arm tight, but you can just drill the relief hole in the softer steel. I bought a cheap set of transfer punches for doing this kind of work. They are a straight punch with different O.D.s that will fit tight in a hole and have a centered dimple to leave a mark in the material that is centered on the hole you are using.
By HotTub Date 2010-04-21 16:46
Is there the possibility of plugging the set screw hole in the top beam instead of welding in a new piece? I was thinking of welding in an adjuster in the bottom beam.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-04-21 18:52
It's not the screw that's the problem it's the center holder that clamps the springs in the middle. It's a steel block crimped into the tube that has a square hole that the springs are held in. You could cut out the center 2 inches and press the holder out and then weld in the piece again and weld up the screw hole.
The bottom tube is the best place for an adjuster as it's the easiest to get at. If you do cut the beam to take out the top block and install the bottom adjuster, just do one tube at a time to keep the beam as straight as possible. If you cut both tubes at once alignment can be a bit tricky.
Also you might want to think about using a PUMA style adjuster, the one with a toothed plate instead of the screw and nut style adjuster. I'm running into problems with mine (the latter style) in that, at full high adjustment the screw is just about off of the aluminum block that the spring set screw goes into. I will probably go to the PUMA style as I feel it is a much more secure clamping system.
By HotTub Date 2010-04-21 20:38
Ahhh ....Brad, it's like you're in my head. You've just addressed all my concerns on the subject. I would truly like to thank you for all your wisdom. You are my yoda
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-04-21 21:41
You makin me blush Thanks, always glad to help, 20 years of tinkering and 16 years of racing, I've managed to pick up a bit of stuff along the way.
By Mike F 2102 Date 2010-04-22 17:53
Man, those curved top roll bar braces look bad ass!
By HotTub Date 2010-04-27 03:15
Thanks Mike! The outcome was worth my dad lighting me on fire!
By HotTub Date 2010-04-27 13:04
Where would u suggest getting the Puma style adjuster from....I don't want a piece of crap.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-04-27 14:25
Try CB Performance or vwparts.net. I've heard the cheap EMPI Puma style adjusters have poor tooth engagement
By HotTub Date 2010-04-29 16:48
Top beam is cut, center holder has been removed, and Puma style adjuster shall be here just as soon as CB Performance is no longer "...behind on our shipping". I better get my PILE of stupid little parts together that need sand blasting and powder.
By HotTub Date 2010-06-22 03:35
There is no update.
By HotTub Date 2010-08-11 05:30
Ya me...I did something on my car after 3 months of other stuff. Many life events/changes in those 3 months and some work that will keep me from my buggy for awhile...but I'll try to sneak some time in on it here and there. I'm almost done with the front beam adjuster. Anyone have a good suggestion for new goodies for rebuilding the front beam? Bearings? Those cheap POS plastic inserts? Also, what's the best way to tell what front end I have...I think it's a Link Pin from what I could find on that there interweb...but not 100% sure...
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2010-08-11 13:13 Edited 2010-08-12 02:28
Best way to identify a link or ball joint beam is by the shock towers. Shock towers that go straight up and have the shocks bolt to the side of them are link pin. Shock towers that curve at the top and the shock stud goes up through them are ball joint.
You have a swing axle chassis so in all liklihood its a link pin...but it could be a ball joint.
Stock parts are best for a rebuild....IF it needs rebuilding. The front end is really tough. If you have the micarta bushings they last a long time. So do the needle bearings. I would stay away from the urethane bushings. Often just some simple seals and new grease and your good to go.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-08-11 14:19
I have yet to see either the needle bearings or the micarta bushings wear out in the front beam. usually the link piins and bushings are pounded to pieces and the link pins are loose.
Depending what you want to do with the car, would depend on what you do to the front. I got mine to handle like a slot car by using a bunch of parts from Formula Vee racing cars. I replaced the rubber seals between the beam and trailing arms with aluminum pieces which gets rid of any side to side movement of the arms. I also replaced the link pin bushings with steel ones that are drilled offset to give you 2.5* negative camber as the stock front suspension has positive camber built into it. This alone made a HUGE difference in how the car turns in. I'll be ussing these as a replacement even on the street cars I build. I got all my parts from Lybarger Racing.
If you'rre lowering the car a bunch, I'd also recomend using caster wedges behind the front beam as when you go more than 2 inches you start to lose caster which will affect your high speed stability. If you go more than 4 inches use 2 sets with longer bottom bolts. They go behind the bottom beam tube and frame bulkhead.
Hope you're back on track now, looking forward to seeing the rest of your build the work you've done so far is great.
By HotTub Date 2010-08-11 21:03
Jeffrey...mine are straight up...strut bolts to the side. Just want to clarify as u said both kinds are link pin...or I'm really tired.
The bearing housings had stress cracks all over and one got demolished (by me) so I need to get new ones. I can get everything to rebuild my front end from the race place u mentione
By Brad H 1498 Date 2010-08-11 21:30
Hey Tommy, Lybarger Racing should be able to supply you with all the parts you need. I never checked to see prices on anything othr than the offset bushings and aluminum spacers. These were comparitively pricey (as compared to stock) but they do the job I want. I think the bushings were about $75, link pins not included and the spacers were about the same, compared to $10 for stock or urethane. You might want to check out a VW supply house before buying kingpin and link pin kits
If your shock bolt in through the side you've got a king and link front end.
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2010-08-12 02:28
Naw...that was me being too tired.
I have edited to be correct. You do have a link pin.
By HotTub Date 2010-08-12 16:51
By HotTub Date 2012-02-05 15:45
Good day, gentlemen!
I'm baaack! I'm working on the buggy finally and intend to get far with it by the end of summer. I'm going to start putting the front back together and will start cleaning the tranny today. I didn't get a chance to test shifting or anything before tranny was pulled...what should I be doing to it before I hang it back on the car??
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