By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-02 12:52
New here. Have a 66' front end. Changed the bump stops,but can't get the drivers side on all the way. Upper torsion bar arm preventing that, resting on it. Searched here and Samba site for answers( mostly answers for lowering) for the fix didn't find. Do you just take off the upper arm and move it up a spline like you would do the back spring plate if you want to adjust it? Passenger side just resting on the bump stop. Don't know why this is?
By Sandsurfer Date 2009-05-02 13:14
The front control arms are not on splines like the rear torsions. The front torsions are a series of long flat plates stacked so the final outcome is basically square.
Put your floor jack under the shock and jack it up until the arm lifts off the snubber, then finish installing the snubber. If you are working on a buggy, you may need to add a little weight to the buggy to compress the suspension as you jack it up.
By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-03 07:04
Ok, I'll try it. Yes it is a buggy, coil overs shocks. So there is no adjustment for the upper arms? Do the upper arms usually rest on the subbers, or are they just touch them?
By Sandsurfer Date 2009-05-03 11:15
The upper arms are usually tight against the top of the snubber when the vehicle is at rest. If this is intended to be a street and mild off road buggy, I would dump the coil overs. The suspension will be too stiff.
By Bill K 96 Date 2009-05-03 11:31
James, If you still have everything set up stock, the front end will be riding high and hard. If you are running coil overs you will have compounded the problem. Your ride will be equivalent to a wagon! If you have access to a stock VW notice how the arms sit in relation to the snubber, almost horizontal.
Are you mainly on the street or off-road? There are different ways to lower the front end and many different opinions. Cost should not over ride safety!
Lose the coil overs, use standard oil shocks, and an adjustable beam. Use caster shims under the lower beam and between 12-15lbs in the front tires. I also modify the spring packs to give a softer ride. People often overlook the seats but they are your last line of defense in achieving an enjoyable ride.
By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-03 21:05
You Guys are great for getting back. I have a 71' vette and it not quite this hard setting it up. I'm new to this type (torsion 4 way ). OK. quickly I have a 66' Alameda, 1914cc, IRS, coilovers (4), poly bushings & spring plate hub. I' am adding polly bushing front swar bar, stock 8 gallon gas tank. This will be driven mostly, Baja, San Luis, Coocs Bay, Imperial, Utah, though it is plated. No front brakes right now. I thought because this is a "dune buggy" that's where it will be 90% running. I'm not jumping , catching air or shooting bowls, just using in dunes/beach, deserts trails, seats 4. Should be in the 2150 lbs. range loaded. I wanted the handling of IRS but with some stiffness, hense front swar bar/poly bushings/coilovers. Again I don't think I want to lower it, I'm just wondering if the upper torsion should actuly be depressig the snubbers or 1/2"-3/4" away? Is there a base line? I saw the post"front end help" with that question but he didn't address it later in his thread.
By Bill K 96 Date 2009-05-03 21:51
James, I had a really thick buggy and it came in at only 1250 lbs. Are you going to be carrying that much gear? I am not familiar with the dunes and the set up most of those guys run, I am street oriented. I would have to research some old Manx Mania newsletters and see what Bruce Meyers recommended. If you look at some of the old magazines he jumped the heck out of those buggies.
I think the coil overs are probably still overkill for mild dune work(I have no experience in that arena).
I have an old Car & Driver article where Bruce used Delco Superlifts in the rear(airshocks) for when he loaded up the car when going off-road then aired them down when driving on the highway. An adjustable front end to raise when going off-road then lower again for the street. He also ditched the front sway bar to allow the front end to act more independent from the other side. Remember, there is hardly any weight up front!
By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-04 05:38
Well, we'll see. Passengers alone 700-750lbs. Anyway back to the question, does the upper torsion bar touch or depress(rest on) the subbers? Is there a norm/baseline?
By Jay H (X-20) (ManxVair CC) Date 2009-05-04 22:35
The front end was designed to support the front end of a beetle with passengers, and as stated.... does not rest on the bump stops. The same front end will now be supporting much less, which is why your front end is sitting on the bumpstops.
Look at any beetle with a king and link front end and you'll have your baseline.
The way I see it, the weight of the passengers should not figure into the equation. You can't add the weight of the passengers to a buggy and assume a beetle is riding around with no passengers (Unless it's Herbie).
By Sandsurfer Date 2009-05-05 00:05
On a box stock, link pink axled Beetle, the bottom of the top trailing arm does sit on the top of the snubber when the vehicle is at rest.
By Jay H (X-20) (ManxVair CC) Date 2009-05-05 02:38
I stand corrected. sorry.
By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-05 07:24
Thank you, ok. I"ll try and have been trying for a week to find a sixty's link pin car. Question...I can take off the top torsion arm, get the snubber all the way on by undoing that bolt that holds the arm onto the flat torsion bar ends? Because of the coilovers, the snubber is hitting the side of it right where the spanner wrench would go. I have to get it aligened, I changed both tie rods. Maybe have them do that a the sway bar also.
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2009-05-05 12:48
Here is a Manx built on a mid 60s chassis.
It is equipped with adjusters and caster shims.
Hope it helps.
By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-05 14:43
Thank you again, I will post pic's tonite to show. Is it hard to add the adjusters in the middle of the axle housing?
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2009-05-05 14:55
Not "hard" per se...but a real mess. The tubes are loaded with grease. Most would suggest just buying a new beam with the adjusters installed. if you have the money then I would highly recommend that approach.
With the avis style you need to really hack around the little indents in the beam to get the stock collars out. I then weld some flat stock around the tub to strengthen it.
By Sandsurfer Date 2009-05-06 02:00
There is no reason to remove the torsion anchor when installing an Avis adjuster. Slot the lock bolt hole, weld on the adjuster "teeth" and bolt it together. The stock anchor will pivot in the tube with no problem.
The grease in the beam does smell bad during the welding process but the smell will go away.
By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-09 13:55
I be taking it to set the toe & check caster soon. Here a pic of what I'm talking about.
By James W 1516 Date 2009-05-09 14:24
No pic, it was over a 1mil. bytes.
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