By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-25 04:59
So this buggy I have has been sitting out in the elements for atleast 20 years. i got around to taking the heads and pots off tonight. this engine is a 1500 and there is some bad rust inside. should i try to reuse these pots with some tlc on them or get a new set of 1600s ?
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-04-25 13:29
For the cost of a new set of jugs/pistons/rings and can't see why you would want to try to rehab the rusty ones. If the rust is severe you will likely have to have them honed or bored. machine shop prices are crazy. Plus you will need new rings, and if bored you will need new pistons.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-04-25 13:52
I agree 100%. Toss 'em and buy new ones. I'd totally disassemble the motor and look for water damage inside also. VW engine cases are very prone to corroding around the sump plate when they sit for a long time. Water gets in the case from condensation, reacts with the oil to for an acid and eats the magnesium case. Steel parts inside the motor will also rust. those can be cleaned as long as the pits aren't too deep. Check the journals closely for pitting. If the crank isn't too bad you can polish it up with some 600 wet/dry paper.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-28 00:10
So i got some free engine parts today, stuff that i was missing. the guy has lots of heads too but i was a little shy about those since i could not tell from looking at them what motor they are from so i passed
heres some pictures
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-28 00:13
i got a free body with not too many usable parts.
would a speedo from a 56 fit work on a 61 hub?
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-28 00:14
also one more question
is a solex 28 pict a big enough carb for a 1500 or 1600 single?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-04-28 01:38
2 hole on the intake = post 71 dual port 1600cc heads. If any are still available grab them.
Yes the speedo will fit. Is that a 57 body??? What a shame if it is. If the front sheetmetal is all in good shape you'll be able to sell it easy, Also if the rear apron (sheet metal between the rear fenders has an "H" shaped stamping in it and it's in good shape you can sell that also.
A 28 is not big enough for a 15-1600 engine. You need at least a 32PICT for a 1500 single port and 34 PICT for a dual port based engine. Actually the 34 is not big enough for a stock engine. There is quite a bit of performance to be gained just from a carb upgrade on a stock motor.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-28 03:15
yeah i do know the dual port but thats it and never seen any of them . i did look closely for those. as for the year of the bug im not to sure thou i thought the guy i got it from said its was a 56 but i will have to go find the chassis number now.
as for the speedo thanks, good i think i need that
as for the carb, thanks again. i was thinking i was going to need a bigger one but hey free is free. it might give me enough to get the motor started to make sure it runs if i havent found something else in the mean time
thanks again Brad
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-28 03:16
the rear apron you mean like the engine lid or trunk lid what ever you call it. if the rear is an apron the the front should a bonet?
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-28 17:14
well i looked at the chassis number and it is 28778** so from my records it looks like a 1960 unless the body has been changed to this pan which is possible. is there any numbers on the body?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-04-29 00:15
53-57 dash This is the give away if it's an early body
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-29 02:04
i dont think it looks like either one. it out at the shop now so i will double check tomorrow
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-30 04:59
Ok so help me out because obviously i dont know much. the intake i picked up wont fit the 1500 heads. is the 1200 intake different then the 1300-1600single?
if it is i have a used 1200 intake for sale
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-04-30 12:39
The 1200, 1300, 1500/1600 were all different and the 1200s were different depending on if it was a 36HP or 40 HP motor.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-04-30 18:30
well dang it, on CIP they have on for 1300-1600 thats why i mentioned the 1300 in there, but possible found a 1500 intake and a carb from a 1500 anyways.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-22 04:45
so a little update. i got an intake and a carb from a 1500 so im set that way. found out that there is a VW supplier on 2 hours away from me so no paying for shipping for me. an so i split my case tonight because i was concerned about the bottom and corrosion but i think im in luck pretty much all the little grooves are still there so i dont think there is any so now im going on a spending spree.
one question to those who know.
on the back of the engine behind where the flywheel goes it is grooved by the flywheel, like the thrust bearing or washer is gone/ and the crank did have quite a bit of lateral movement
whats the fix to that movement?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-05-22 13:11
Does your supplier also do engine work? It sounds like the case is beat out on the rear main and it will need to be machined forthe next biggest size of thrust bearing (rear main)
With the case all clean and empty put it back together and torque up the 6 big case bolts. Hold a trouble light at one end of the crank tunnel and look at the inside of the case down the tunnel. If you can see light between any of the webs at the case seams above or below the tunnel the case is warped and no good. No light, you're good to go,
Check the main bearing saddles, if you can catch a finger nail on any ridges in the saddles you'll also need an align bore. But I would plan on that anyways with you case needing a thrust cut.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-22 13:35
boy Brad you really know how to wreck a guys good feeling about something.LOL
its all good its better to know about this stuff before then after a guy spends a whole bunch on parts
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-05-22 21:30
Sorry didn't mean to wreck your day, but like you said, better to know now than rebuild on a pooched case.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-22 23:22
its all good brad not hurt feelings
does anyone know what the original size for the cam journals, main journals and rod journals. i need to measure all this stuff to see what bearing size i need
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-05-23 01:00
Here is a picture of a rod bearing for refference. You can read the .25. that means it is first oversize. They came in standard (STD) 1st (,25) 2nd (.50) and 3rd (.75)
Main bearings can be very confusing becasue there is a few combinations of crank, case and thrust sizes. But there will be a part number stamped on them or silk screened that you should be able to use. If your parts place is good you should be able to take them your crank and case and have them check them.
Here's a standard one for refference
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-23 03:22
but i also need to know what the standard size of the journals are on the crank and cam. so i know if it has been turned down or worn out
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-23 22:49
what is the torque on those large nuts?
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-05-24 02:27
All your torque specs
Here's some measurements I found.
1st undersize .25mm
2nd undersize .50mm
3rd undersize .75mm
4th undersize 1.00mm (54mm)
Crankshaft Converted To Inches
Std 2.1641 - 2.1649
1st 2.1541 - 2.1549
2nd 2.1441 - 2.1449
3rd 2.1341 - 2.1349
4th 2.1241 - 2.1249
Std 2.1646 - 2.1654
1st 2.1546 - 2.1554
2nd 2.1446 - 2.1454
3rd 2.1346 - 2.1354
4th 2.1246 - 2.1254
Conversion MM To Inches
.25mm = .010"
.50mm = .020"
.75mm = .030"
1.00mm = 040"
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-24 04:23
you are a wizard Brad
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-29 18:37
so i got the case cleaned and put back together no light good to go. but the area where the main bearing sits has a ridge on it where the oil gallery is so now i need to find some one down here in southern Alberta to line bore my case.
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-05-29 21:28
If you can't find anyone local you could put it on the bus up to Saskatoon and have my buddy at Aircooled Classics do all your machine work for you. I think there's a guy in Medicine Hat that builds motors and does work for people. I'll see if I can find some contact infor for him.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-05-30 00:25
I just got off the phone with a older gentleman from lethbridge that says that he will do it. but boy do i need to some more work first.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-06-06 18:32
ok so here is where i am at
i measured my crank mains and rods bearing. i need to get my cranked turned cost $150
new stock crank $176 so new crank it is
also need to get my case cut so off to get that done first. hopefully by the end of the summer i will have parts and pieces i can put together to call an engine
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-06-08 01:02
I know you're not racing, but I really can't recommend a couterweighted crank enough. It will greatly smooth out your engines running and increase your engine life as it is much easier on the engine case. IF you buy your rods from CIP1 get them weighed!!!!! Todd at the shop here has seen huge variances in the sets he's bought and has had to mix and match sets to get them close enough to balance. Even a decent digital kitchen scale will give you a good enough reading for a non-HP engine.
Here is the cranks I am talking about. More than worth the extra $40....http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D8120
Is this motor going to be stock as a rock or are you going to tune it a bit?
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-06-08 05:20
this thing is going to be non stock stock. with that i mean its gonna be a 1500 converted to 1600. rason being its a "H" case and from what ive heard its ok do do some mods on but not real power increases. so stock single port 1600 i guess if there was such a beast. and that crank is nice but i sort of want to keep the costs lower for this one, sort of like learning the ropes so i dont want to have a really expensive boat anchor, if you know what i mean. i am going to reuse my rods i hope they look good and the bearings were tight so i think im good
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-07-04 17:03
OK so here is another little update with little happiness
i took my block to this old VW mechanic who said he would cut my mains for me. well turns out that the thrust flange needs to be a 3mm with 1st over mains
any ideas on bearings. i am going to using a new crank so crank will be standard
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-07-04 19:02
I've looked at a couple of web sites and see nothing listed for 3rd over thrust. you could check with Rimco or Brothers Machine and see if they can help you out. Looks like you may be hunting for another case to use. Too bad someone beat the hell out of the case, but that is becoming very common these days......
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-07-08 22:50
Thanks Brad will do
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-07-21 23:15
ok i need some advice AGAIN
i have the chance to buy this engine, serial number B 508 6240
from what i see its a type 2 engine. i dont have it so i cant see if it is a single or dual relief( not sure how to tell that yet). this will come to be as a block only.
1st question-- is it a type 2 1600cc engine
2nd question-- can i use this block with my internals, pots, cylinders and tins from my 1500cc that is no good?
thanks in advance
By Brad H 1498 Date 2013-07-22 12:32
It is an early 1600 case. Type 2 motors will have 3 10mm mounting holes in the front of hte case for the rear ending mount. Your internals will fit as well as your cylinders.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-07-22 13:19
Brad, so i should be good to purchase it then.
you are a wealth of info Brad
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2013-07-30 13:42
Ok heres another question for you all
what would the better gas tank to use
a tank from a 1960
a tank from a 1968.
i really dont know what would be better. my 1961 tank is unuseable
thanks in advance
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2013-07-30 14:47
Most use the earlier 61-67 tank. Will you be relocating the filler neck or does it use a stock exit point in your hood?
If you are relocating the filler I think either will work. If you are using the original hole that many buggies have then you would use the earlier tank.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2014-03-18 13:38
So another little update. i have purchased a AJ block for $30 it has the crank and cam. i have not seen it yet so i really dont kow what shape it is in. im hoping for the best. it came from a guy that was going to use it for a rebuild so i am assuming he checked it out.
but we all know what happens we we assume
heres hoping for the best
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2014-03-22 16:46
the AJ block is in my possession now time to find time to measure it up.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2014-03-27 02:49
thrust measures like 19.8 mm
By Brad H 1498 Date 2014-03-28 04:21
Honestly Jeremy you are going to have a tough time coming up with a good case. We are getting to the point where just about everything out there is beat to death and if it's not it's in a good running engine. If you want, give my buddy Todd a call at Aircooled Classics here in Saskatoon. He has a stash of cases and will probably have something for you to work with, and can machine everything to your specs. His number is 306-244-6565 and he's open Mon-Fri.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2014-03-28 04:34
Thanks Alot Brad.
you would think that with all these cases being beat that some one would come up with a solution. i have one more ace in my pocket but just have to wait till someone else plays the jack
By Brad H 1498 Date 2014-03-30 02:01
Companies such as GEX have come up with solutions, ie custom made bearings, I've had one of their engines open that was 4th oversize on the case. Good luck in your search.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2014-03-30 17:10
GEX i havent heard of them. i have done some online recearch and that name never showed. i will do more
once again thanks Brad
By Jeffrey P 655 Date 2014-03-30 21:34
Search GEX in the Samba feedback forums.
Be ready to hold your nose...they STINK!
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2014-03-31 00:16
oh maybe i wont then
By Brad H 1498 Date 2014-03-31 03:58
Sorry Jeremy, I should have included more info in my post. GEX are a large rebuilder who have a less than stellar reputation. They are have some rather "sketchy" rebuild methods including rebearing cases that are well past worn out, thus their propriatary engine bearings. Just becasue they are available doesn't mean they are a good idea or the propper way to fix things.
If you are going to talk to anyone about what is available as far as fixing a case it would be Rimco Machine in California. A VERY WELL respected shop.
By Jeremy N 3622 Date 2015-03-08 23:14
still looking for the right motor. i have got 2 more blocks in my posession, just have to get the opened up to measure.
heres keeping my fingers crossed
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