Hey gang,

All is not idle on the Subaru to Deserter GS project.  Now that the holidays are over, I can get back to getting things done on the car!

Got the new intercooler last night.  About what I expected for what I paid as far as overall quality, but this one fit my sizing and space requirements perfectly.  Couldn't really justify custom making essentially the same thing for around $500+ when I could get this on for $150......  I just have to leak check it and then figure out how to chamfer the sharp edges inside the inlet/outlet openings and keeping the filings out of the core.  Typical aftermarket construction - no chamfering on any cut or machined edges!



Another little project in the works.  I wanted a sealed catch can for the engine breather/PCV system, but didn't like what I could find commercially - especially for the around $100 pricing on most of 'em.  I've had this little aluminum can in my scrap bin for years, can't even remember where it came from - but thinking it would come in handy one day......  so machined some 1/2NPT fittings for inlet/outlet plus a 1/4NPT on bottom for a drain, the baffles are sitting next to it on the bench.  Using a piece of fuel cell foam above the baffles to trap any leftover oil vapors before exiting out the top.  Next I need to make a mounting bracket and get the fittings welded onto the can.  The "breather" end will tie into the turbo-inlet air filter tube.



Here's a pic of the sleeve I made and installed on the TD04 outlet - bringing it up to standard 2" size.  It's a slight press-fit plus locktited on - it ain't going anywhere!



Cheers,
Jeff

Jeff,
Get yourself one of those rubber expandable marine plugs... you know... the ones that expand in diameter when you tighten a nut or wing-nut on the thing. It brings two rigid pieces of material closer to each other and it squeezes out the rubber against the inside of the pipe wall.

The ones the grinders use at work are actually insert plugs. You could easily trim down the "T" handle and large end of the rubber and simply replace the washer to make an insert plug from this:
http://webstore.petersenresources.com/thandleexpand.aspx

Hope this helps. I know it allows the grinders to bevel a but joint on any size pipe while maintaining cleanliness. If it's good enough in the nuclear world, its got to be good for your build.
Jay

Intended IC location.  The blue 90 elbow on the near side will feed into an aluminum tube 90, running underneath the IC and then into the throttle body - after it makes a little bend to get into that pesky TB angle.

On the far side, the turbo will feed the IC directly off another 90* silicone elbow.  This means I have to position the turbo (and last exhaust section) so that when all connected, the IC is centered in the chassis.

The reason for the routing on the TB side under the center of the IC is to provide room to fit a short plenum under the IC which can be fed from 3" ducts on either side - barely!  I'll take air from the side pods with some molded in scoops (ala: Manxter-ish) with flexible ducting to the IC plenum.  The IC has to sit up kind'a high to get the ducting up to the TB - but fits into the Deserter GS hood "scoop" OK.  I'm shopping for some fiberglass louvers that can be molded into the engine cover and vent straight up and out the top.  I've found them rather hard to find!

You can also see the catch can on the far side when I was trying out various mounting locations.



Another view:



I originally wanted to mount the IC directly to the engine and trans - but having it "cantilevered" up so high off the drivetrain has me re-thinking this idea.  Also, it would seem to mount up much easier to that cross-support just underneath, at least on the front side.  Not sure how I'll handle this?  The exhaust and turbo will be drivetrain mounted, and with only a short elbow from turbo to IC - not a whole lot of flexibility there.....  The weight of the IC will require some pretty hefty mounts!

Jeff

Looks like you are getting there with the engine install

'' I'll take air from the side pods with some molded in scoops (ala: Manxter-ish) with flexible ducting to the IC plenum.''

I think that is more (ala: V2 ish) 

Hey DL,
I see what you mean about the V2 - built in side air intakes!  I hope mine blend in cleanly, one of the goals of this project is to stay with the original styling of the GT bodywork - as much as possible.

Said it before and I'll say it again - that V2 is one great looking buggy!  It surely defines a new generation in styling, pulling cues from earlier designs, then updating the design to modern standards of fit and finish!  It sure is nice!  Bet you could sell a few of those over here if you had a US distributor (well.... at least when the US economy comes back to life!!).

Jeff

We have a spare set of Manxter "S" sidepods if you like the look of the scoop.  Tom

Couple more updates to add to this thread.
Just got my modified Intercooler and 95% finished-welded header back from the welder.  Bill's Metal - does superb welding work!
Needed to re-locate the intake duct on the IC, which turned out to be a lot of work!  All done now and looking great!


That mod allowed proper connection to the turbo compressor outlet:


Only thing left to do on the header is finish welding the turbo mounting flange (it's a tight fit on the inlet tube, allowing secure positioning and just a hair of flexibility for final fit-up before becoming permanent).  I was concerned welding the final few joints might cause the turbo mounting position to move a little, so wanted it left for last for any final tweaking with the IC placement.

Under car shot with header after final tacking - the milestone when two sides became one!


Now to build some supporting mounts for the turbo & intercooler.

Jeff

Making progress....  Front IC mount done.  OK make that a step forward and two back, the wedge throttle body adapter shown causes interference problems with the cross-member just behind.  Going to have to re-machine the adapter to somewhat less of an angle. 

Now working on the rear IC mount, first try didn't go as I wanted, now to plan B. 



Jeff

So this will actually be a Deseter GSS when finished right?
Looking killer.
Keep the pics coming along.

John

Hey John - I think I'm going to nick-name it a "Super Buggy" GS.  They've got "Super Cars" right??  We all know what that implies - exotic styling, high tech, powerful motors, high-G handling and top speed to the Moon!  Why not a Buggy?  The VW roots are pretty much relegated to a few minor items still in the build - the rest is all somewhat more "modern".

I think that IC mount needs a few more lightening holes..... 

Jeff

New pics to share.  Got my throttle body wedge adapter modified to work - reducing the angle from 20 degrees down to 10.  This allowed very nice alignment with the throttle body feed tube (shown in "mock-up" PVC piping).  Also finished the intercooler mounting brackets - suitably "lightweighted"!





Waiting on some aluminum elbows to show up to begin fabbing the feed tube in metal.  Then to figure out how I'm going to get the blow-off valve in there too!

Jeff

Jeff, it looks like your mock up is for 2.5" aluminum. If that's the case, it appears that there would be ample room anywhere on the side of the inter cooler to have a mount collar welded on for the BOV. That may be another option thinking outside the box. It looks looks like a challenge to mount the BOV on the piping under the cooler with the lack of room in that location.

Jay 

Couple of updates - Subaru related:

A pic of the turbo plumbing for my mid-engine layout:



and here's what I came up with for supporting the turbo, hanging so far off the back of the motor.  An aluminum bracket mounts to the trans tail-cone, through a couple of high temperature rubber bushings, then a steel 1/8" plate bolted to the turbine flange off the header.  I was concerned about having some flexibility at this mounting point, being that the exhaust system will "grow" as it heats up, while still providing some support for the weight of the turbo, cantilevered so far off the back of the engine.  I think this will work pretty well...



Finally, a quick pic of the remote oil filter and thermostat, coupled close together on the lower passenger side of the chassis.  The one connected SS hose is the feed line from the engine.  The return line comes off the right-hand side fitting (in this photo) using a 180 degree hose end, and curves back under the valve cover to the engine.  The "capped" fittings off the left hand side of the thermostat will go to an oil cooler, location yet to be determined.



I tell you - all these "details" are really impeding my progress on this buggy! 

Jeff

Jeff, looking GOOD! The details will save you heartache later though... It's better to do it right the first time around and be done with it. (Says the guy who went through 4 transmissions before he sprung for a Rancho) LOL

Jay

Thanks Jay.  While it's fun figuring all this stuff out, it seems a bit overwhelming at times!

Quick question for you - how much room should I leave above the O2 sensor bung as shown in the pic of the turbo for the sensor and wiring?  I've got about 4" of clearance as it sits - to the underside of the bodywork.  Not too many other directions I can point it without running into some obstacle!  Is that enough to be able to R&R the sensor if necessary?

Jeff

I think that may depend on the sensor you are using. I measured a body of 3.20" and you have to figure for insertion of the actual sensor... I know you can tip the body slightly when the threads are clear of the bung, so you can gain a little. The best advice I can give you is to buy the sensor now so you have dimensions to go off of. Worst case scenario, you may have to dimple the exhaust to get the bung to sit lower. Another option would be to weld the bung in slightly or even mostly recessed into the pipe. That will obviously affect performance (flow) but if you have zero room, you'll have to do what you need to do. The last option would be to abandon that beautiful transition piece for an offset transition piece, where the offset is all to one side. that may throw off the rest of your exhaust plans though.

One thing is for sure, you'll never get an O2 sensor socket on it for removal if you only have 4", so I would recommend a heavy dose of anti-sieze or Milk of Magnesia when you install it. With the bung and sensor vertical like that, will you have room to swing a wrench to get it broke loose? Will clocking the bung slightly gain you clearance to the body and still allow room for swinging a wrench?

I'm sure you've brainstormed already, but it can't hurt to ask the simple Q's again.

Jay

I do appreciate your comments and questions Jay!  FWIW I also contacted DIYAutotune, where I plan to buy the O2 kit.  They also suggested "maybe" 4" - but it would be tight at best.  Your comments solidified that comment!

I'll look into re-clocking the 3"-2.5" transition section, which is only tacked to the exhaust outlet housing adapter.  I "think" I can point the sensor straight down?  The transmission is down there, but might be another inch or so of extra clearance?  Otherwise I'll consider whatever angle I can use to get the most clearance.  The exhaust will make a U-bend off that transition piece and then into a transverse muffler.  Pointing the sensor straight back is another option, but the muffler will be right there - another source of a lot of heat!

Ahhhh - what's another challenge eh??

Hey - I started working on my front to rear cooling lines today!  Figured these need to be worked out before I pull the engine in about another month.  Going with aluminum tube running down either side of the chassis (and insulated).  Pictures to follow.....
Jeff

I would caution against sensor straight down and use that as a last resort. With these computer controlled cars producing much more H2O byproduct than the good old days of CO2, HC, NOX, etc... I'd be concerned about corrosion in the threads. If I personally had no other choice than to orient the sensor straight down, I would definitely recess the bung fully into the gas stream to create a "dam" to try and keep the sensor from corroding.

You seem like you like a challenge anyway, Jeff.

Jay

Good point Jay.  I too don't like putting anything like sensors or vent tubes on the bottom of a passageway - guaranteed to catch junk at some point or another and cause problems.  I'm pretty sure I can position the sensor at some angle in the upper half of the transition.  May have to get the rest of the exhaust tubing and muffler mocked in place to better see what room I have to work with.

Hmmmm..... this has me re-thinking my ideas about the BOV too - as I had originally been thinking about putting it in the bottom of the intake tube, under the intercooler.  I might have to mount it slightly remote from the tube with a silicone elbow or something.  Don't really want anything coming out the bottom half of either the intake or exhaust tubing!  I've got lots of room under the intercooler - now - but that is going to rapidly disappear when I have to build a fiberglass plenum underneath for getting cool air to it.

That's one reason this build it taking sooooo long - I usually have to work through 3 or 4 different ideas & plans before I settle on the final and "best" way to do it - on every little detail on this buggy!  Plus it is now beyond the point where you have to consider just "one" detail by itself - more like 2 or 3 at the same time!  Sort of has an exponential effect of taking more time to figure out!

Jeff

Jeff, the detail is evident already in your build. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is following along contently.

FWIW, I have my BOV mounted on the bottom of the intake. Besides the lack of room to do otherwise, I reasoned that the intake filter would keep any debris out of the valve. So far, no issues with it.

I'm also running a Outerwears pre-filter, which is something that Paul suggested I go with. I've been happy with the prefilter, and it's worked very well to keep the actual filter clean.

I know exactly what you are talking about with respect to figuring out the details. I love the way one decision will affect another decision down the road. This is where you really need to think things through. Good luck with the puzzle!

Jay

Turbo drain problem - SOLVED!

I was getting major heartburn on this turbo oil drain issue - how to get it back into the engine using the original drain tube.  I had thought I could get away with a short 90 elbow from the main drain hose into the OEM block drain, but when I tried an old silicone 90 elbow I had as a temporary test-fit, wasn't going to get the drain angle I felt I needed.  Oil won't drain up hill, and my drain distance is a "long-ish" ~2' going forward.

Today, I decided the OEM drain tube was going to have to come out.  If you've been around the Subaru motors much, you know they use lots of press-fit tube connections all over the engine - including this oil drain.  I've found it fairly easy to remove these using vice grips and getting them to twist a little, then back and forth applying pressure to pull them out.  Then - most are already pretty well sized for an NPT tap & fitting.
Again, the oil drain was no different, except it also used a bolt-on tab to secure it into place.  I was able to fit a short pipe over the tube and get it twisting, then a block of wood to help pry it outward while twisting - came right out without any damage what so ever!

Originally I was going to modify and re-install it - but it has a really tight bend right out of the block (turning it vertical) making it difficult to cut and modify without almost starting from scratch.  I found the tube going into the head was very close to a 3/8 NPT tap drill size.... hmmmm.....

Dug in my AN fitting stash and had a spare 3/8 - AN10 fitting.......

Took the plunge and decided to tap the head for the fitting.  (Note the drainback is actually in the head, not in the block!)  Using LOTS of grease and carefully tapping a little, backing out and cleaning, re-greasing, re-tapping a little more, until it was deep enough to get full thread engagement on the fitting.  Then spend lots of time cleaning and vacuuming the freshly tapped hole.  Behind the hole, in the head, is actually a small cavity -not a continuous tube-like passageway back into the block.  I felt the ample grease on the tap caught 99.9% of any chips created.  A little primer and locktite and wrenched her home!  Now I've got a great drain-back angle and easy connection back to the engine!

Some visuals to go with all this dribble..... 

Freshly tapped and cleaned:  (Note the turbo water feed outlet is just above the larger oil drain.)



Fitting installed:



One more detail completed!  That's it - this thing is a Battle of the Details!

Jeff

Little more progress to report - got the intake tube finished.  2.5" dia. aluminum, with NPT fitting for IAT sensor and 1" port for BOV.  Both are close to the throttle body connection and should provide near ideal operation during on and off boost transitions.  BOV sitting next to the tube for "bling" value!  LOL



Also another little side project, needed to transition my return to radiator hose size down to 1" (I'm following the Renegade Hybrids formula for the cooling system as used on their 914 -V8 swaps).  While working on the hard line running up towards the radiator I realized I didn't have as much room as I though back by the engine to make this transition!  I was planning on using an in-line temp. sensor connector as an air bleed off a cut-down section of the original upper radiator hose, and transition with a silicone reducer hose from there.  Not enough room for all that....  So I decided to modify the temp./bleed piece to do double duty and reduce the hose size.  It has a smooth tapered transition inside going from the OEM 1.5" hose size down to 1" on the outlet side.  This should work well to feed into the return line and fit in the available space.



So finally have most of the major plumbing to the turbo and into the engine completed!  Still have to fab up an intake tube (with careful study of where I'll have enough room for an air filter!), and get on to the rest of the exhaust system and muffler.  I need to do some serious work on this since Summer is quickly winding down!

Jeff

Nice work Jeff.  You are not building a buggy, you are ENGINEERING one. 

p.s. That pink carpet is FABULOUS!

Hey - that's not pink, ,,,,  it's Mauve!  Hehehehehe

Makes a nicer contrast than plain old white background!  Just an old towel though, covering up all the junk on my workbench!

Couple more pics from the weekend's work - making headway on the muffler install:



and



Here you can just make out the intake tube installed under the intercooler - and see the outlet tube for the BOV.  Then it dawned on me - they didn't really provide any means of supporting/mounting the BOV other than the hose connections.  Now something else to have to figure out!  (head beating against the wall here....)



More SS elbows on the way to finish out the exhaust outlets, plus some muffler hangers to work out.

This is fun, fun fun!   
Jeff

A bit more exhaust progress today. Completed the muffler supports and tacking on the tail pipes - check out those TIPS!  OK, so I guess I was romanced a little with the vision of a nice set of tips - from a dual exhaust coming off the back.  Had to follow through.  Got to have a little style to go with all the function - right?!





Also, worked on the other "detail" I've been trying to figure out for a bit now - how to properly support that very nice Samco BOV.  As nice as it is, it seems Samco doesn't seem to provide any way to mount it other than the hose connections.  In the end, a proper cradle mount seemed to the way to go:



Flexible mounts allow some movement to go with the intercooler and engine.

Jeff

Couple new pics to add.  Just got some parts back from powder coating and finished the cold air intake tube:

Air intake tube - K&N filter to turbo.  Note the AN fitting for crankcase breather/PCV system and 1" hose connection for BOV.  The small tab next to the tube is a support piece for next to the air filter.  It'll clamp onto the tube with a hose clamp.  Machined adapter at the filter end for a 3" filter fitting (tube is 2.5").



Close up of the BOV and custom mount (now p-coated    ):



The big news is my custom exhaust header is out getting ceramic coated - should be ready around Thanksgiving.  Can't wait to see it nice and shiny!

Jeff

More bling to share: 



Needs just a little more polishing, don't ya think???

Jeff

That's a fine looking header! I wish I had your fabrication vision/skills and patience.

What's the grenade looking thingy on the right bank?

Rob

Thanks for the kudos Rob.  The thingy is a flex joint.  I wanted to eliminate bolt-together joints in the header to avoid leakage problems.  This was a bit of a double edge sword though.  Being all one piece, it's more difficult to R&R the system on the car - but I was also concerned about thermal expansion of the system without any "flexibility".  I'd read about other turbo header designs, and in particular about Porsche 930 turbo headers which developed crack problems until they began incorporating a flex joint where the two sides come together.  Last minute decided to add one in my system as well.

All the twists and curve sure took a long time and lots of fitting to get it together, but necessary to snake it around the suspension and chassis.  I also build it in sections starting at the Outfront head-pipes, fitting, tacking and then fully welding before moving downstream.  This allowed for minor corrections as the build progressed from welding "movement".
Finally, the culmination of all that work!  It sure feels good to have it sitting there in finished form!

Jeff

Thanks Terry.  Man, I hit it with some Mothers polish as recommended by the ceramic coater - BA-LING!!!!  Now it's got some serious shine!
Just got in the new ARP SS bolts for bolting up the turbo today.  I'm going to use them with the copper coated nuts for holding everything together at the turbo - with high temp Permatex anti-seize.  Can't wait to see it all mocked back up together again.  One final mock-up planned to double check and final fit-up of everything - turbo, BOV, intercooler, hoses, exhaust, etc., plus do a partial wire-up of the engine to relay box harness and begin fitment of the coolant lines.
Just need another string of 70-something degree days to play!  LOL - not too likely here in MD for another few months.....

Jeff

Jeff - are you planning on using SS bolts to hold the turbo to the exhaust manifold?  I was told that does not work because of the different expansion rates.  I found nickle bolts & nuts at McMaster Carr that won't corrode.  They are working great so far.   Tom

Yes I am (was?) Tom!

I do know about the different expansion rates - steel vs. SS.  SS is definitely higher.  I've used low grade SS bolts on exhaust system flange connections before without any problems, but not around a turbo.  Have 0 experience in that area.
The one thing I didn't want to do was mix SS with steel bolts - ie; the threaded bosses in the turbo housing vs. the through holes.  I'm also trying to avoid using SS bolts and nuts together due to galling issues after they have cooked for a while - that's the reason for going to the copper plated nuts for any through-bolted connections.  The copper nuts, however only seem to be available in 10mm x 1.5, while the threaded turbo housing holes are 10mm x 1.25.  I chose the 1.5 thread for all the through holes (with nuts) and 1.25 for the tapped housing holes.

3/8 bolts have a bit of a sloppy fit in the through-holes allowing possible mis-alignment between exhaust path openings, so I was avoiding those "much easier to find" fasteners.

I obviously don't mind spending the money to do this right, perhaps I should call up Outfront and see what they recommend?  I could have sworn you and Ollie both had SS bolts connecting your turbos to the exhaust system (header and post-turbo) at Carlisle, and thought "yep, that's the ticket!"

You found high nickel bolts/nuts to use in metric sizes?  I scoured McMaster to find something there before pulling the trigger on the ARP stuff.  At least one of the highly regarded Turbo books I read recommended SS fasteners for turbo headers and exhaust systems.  I just figured the difference in expansion (and relative bolt growth) wouldn't be enough to matter - but I certainly could be 100% wrong in this area.
Any part numbers for what you used Tom?

Jeff

DAMN SON THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.

Great work Jeff, makes mine look like a grade 10 shop project. Did you rob the rear suspension off a formula ford? The uprights look familiar from the days wrenching on my buddies Van Diemen. Would love to see some more over all chassis shots.

brad

Thanks Brad.  Umm, well,,, the project sort of evolved from a basic "clean it up and rebuild what needs it" to "let's just see how far we can take this!" 

Close on the Formula Ford - part of my inspiration (madness??) was considering what might have happened if Autodynamics would have taken some choice bits from their Formula Ford parts bin and fitted them to a GS chassis - to build the "ultimate Deserter GS".  Well, Autodynamics didn't bother, but a young employee named Reeves did.  I wound up wanting to re-create that experiment with the best ideas I could throw at it and using whatever engineering know-how I could muster - along with lots'a help from other buggy minded folks!  What's shown above is where I'm at today.  Some earlier pics are here, showing more chassis details you might be interested in:
http://www.dunebuggyarchives.com/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=682

It's come a loooong way from those early photos, and still got a good ways to go.  I haven't really spent much time on the front end yet with lots to work out there.  This past year has pretty much been the year of the drivetrain.  That's getting near done - finally!

Cheers,
Jeff

Hey Jeff,
Tom caught a good one there. I have experience with log grade SS bolts I tried on a SAAB 900 SPG with T3/T4 turbo, and I was disappointed that I had to cut one bolt off. I used Permatex anti-seize too (the gray stuff, not the high-temp stuff.

The permatex was still on the fastener, and it was still pliable though slightly dried out. I managed to get 2 out of three apart. I was using SS nuts as well to try and combat the expansion rate issues.

Live and learn... I'll stick with steel next time.

I've no experience with nickel coated bolts. That might be worth a try.

The build is coming along well!

Jay

Hey Jay, always welcome to hear your advise.
I did a little looking & reading up on the ARP fasteners.  The "bulk" bolts I purchased are their 300 stainless alloy, the same alloy used for their header (and other exhaust) bolt kits.  According to the literature, their SS is produced to act like a very high tensile spring when tightened, still maintaining the memory so that it applies pressure without stretching out of shape.  It sounds like the amount of stretch they can take compensates for the expansion values?  I sent them an email to make sure this is a suitable application.  The recommended torque value is 50 ft/lbs!  I probably won't go quite that high....

I know from experience "typical" stainless steel bolts are fairly low grade, like < grade 5.  Regular hex heads and even allen heads stretch like crazy and easily gall/seize up, especially with SS nuts!  That "may" be reason they've gotten the bad rap?

The ARP bolts are in a whole 'nother league, I've used them for headers and general engine fasteners and loved them!  Expensive for sure, but jewel like quality.  That said, I still feel like this is a bit of an experiment with potential failure.  It's only 3 bolts connecting turbo to header, they can always be swapped out later if need be.

I guess we'll find out!
Jeff

I believe it was Outfront that told me not to use SS bolts to bolt the Turbo to the exhaust manifold.  I got nickle (not nickle plated) here http://www.mcmaster.com/#cap-screws/=4vfrj6 5/16" and used the matching nuts.  I did use SS washers.  I did not see metric sizes.  I used never sieze for insurance.  No corrosion and still tight 1 year and @ 2000 miles later.  Tom

Jeff, let us know how it works out.

Jay

Man, It's getting crowded in there!  Finally working in the "last" dry run assembly in the engine bay.  BOV all plumbed in - and now in hindsight I wish I would have put it up on the intercooler instead of down underneath!  It's getting to be a real bear to R&R that stuff!

Still have some oil cooler plumbing to do, and tons of other details....

Intercooler removed - only way to see some of what's underneath.



Cooler installed.



I like the way the exhaust fitted up! 



Jeff

So Question:
See those 3 big white wires coming from the alternator in the top pic?  One of those wires runs into the round plug, the other two are tied together at the bolt-on terminal.  Do all three of these simply go to the big starter lug (just behind on the trans)?  And then to the battery from there?

2 smaller wires also coming out of the round plug - I guess these are the warning lamp and... switched (+)?

Jeff