You can use a super Beetle IF you change the frame head to the standard one and use a beam front axle. Another choice is an aftermarket frame like the Berrien Buggy one. Or you can always make something yourself. A Karman Ghia pan will work IF you replace the floorpans with ones for a Beetle or make your own.

I've always thought that the older Bugs made the best bajas and buggies. I mean it's mostly done straight off. If you really wanted you could just pull the body off, drop a fiberglass pan on it and drive away.

But I would have to agree with ManxCraig, I personally haven't seen one, but a Karman Ghia would make a sweet buggy.

I am new to VW but am very interested in building a fiberglass buggy.  I had one about 20 years ago for a short time but lived in a small town, noone new anything about them and we couldn't keep it running and had to sell it.  Didn't know what I had until I found this site, looks like by the Buggy ID it was a clamdigger. 

I see where the older beetles are recommended for an easier build but so far I'm having a hard time finding one that isn't completely rusted down.  What would be the cons of using say.. a 70's beetle?  Are parts for certain year models easier to find?  I find references to parts that I have no idea about yet.. such as frame head and beam..  Sorry for being such a newbe but I guess everyone is at some point, right?  I'm far from being any kind of mechanic but am familiar with working with water-cooled american engine external parts.. and standard maintenance..  I read a lot of forums but only absorb some of the info because I'm unfamiliar with some terms and parts.  The buggy I want to build is just a street buggy to cruse around in and day-trip..  Love the manx style but think a standard length body would be more practical for me.  ANY help at all would be GREATLY appreciated.

Hey Michael,
Welcome. I don't think I've seen a "flaming" post here yet chastising someone for not knowing anything VW. I was there myself once, so I know where you are coming from.

Hindsight is 20-20 they say. Too bad you got rid of the Clam Digger, but you've found a great site if you want to get back into a buggy.

Lets see. The Frame head is the forward most part of the chassis. This is the part that the "beam" mounts to. The beam is the front suspension, and is basically the two horizontal pipes in the very front of the chassis.

So the frame head is the part that receives the two horizontal pipe looking things. When you mount a beam, you clamp the beam to the frame head.

Hope this makes some type of sense to you. Feel free to ask anything else you may or may not know. If you still have questions about the beam/framehead I can see if I've got some photos that show that.

Jay

Incredible..  I was expecting to wait at least days maybe longer but you guys are right on top of this!  Thanks for the information and encouragement, I really appreciate it.  I guess the first thing I need to know is where to start looking for the doner VW Bug and which one I need.  I find a little conflicting info on whether to find an older one or use a newer one.. and the differences in IRS vs Swing-Axel. Also whether its harder to find parts for particular years.  I'm no stranger to grease and grime and tools, but, as I mentioned, I'm not a mechanic and probably should try to make my first build as simplified as I can and gain knowledge along the way.  I don't want to get lost and frustrated and give up.  Thanks in advance for help from anyone willing.   PS.  I found a post on here about build instructions but the initial post was deleted and the link/info along with it.  If I can find it, I'll post pics of the old clam digger.

You know, if I were in your situation looking to build a Dune Buggy but having limited knowledge of the process, I would find one for sale and finish what someone else started. There are quite a few for sale here in my area, upstate NY. This would be much easier and much cheaper than starting new.  Just my thought on the matter.

Hi David,  thanks.  I've been looking for quite some time and it seems I can only find fully finished buggies that are far to expensive or basically piles of parts.  I live in Southeast Missouri.  The only buggy I owned 20 years ago that I posted above (sorry it was so HUGE) was apparently thrown together by a guy and we ended up with a nightmare of problems.  The shift linkage was put together with drywall screws and a broom handle, the transmission was mounted with different types of mounts... one that was designed to move, the other not.. which resulted in breaking the non-moving one.  Several things that were not designed to go together.  I'm worried that I could get something like that again and without the knowledge of what parts goes with what, I'd be stuck and have lost the money too.

My thinking was that if I found a beetle that was running and had most of the original gear, I could fix, clean, repair or replace what was necessary on the chassis (with lots of info and help) and put a fiberglass body on it.  I realize also that I could get a lemon beetle just as I did the buggy before, just thought the odds might be less.

I'd be happy to buy a running buggy and have something to study on.  What year models are recommended for someone starting out?

Michael, Since I'm no VW mechanic, I can't tell you the best VW year(s) to start with. I can tell you that a standard buggy will work well for you. You should not look into the SUPER BEETLE, as the front end uses McPherson struts which will not fit under the front fenders. You want an older (standard) beetle with the front beam for a good starting point for the buggy. When looking, check the floor pans out real good. They are easy to replace for someone who has a little experience with a welder, but if you find a VW with decent pans already, you're that much further ahead.

You are on the money with going with a standard body. You won't need to shorten the chassis and floor pans, and worry about shortening the brakes, clutch, throttle cable, brake lines, etc etc etc. The shortened bodies were more plentiful, but there are still fiberglass body manufacturers out there that are making bodies. If you find you can't locate a suitable full length body out there, you may want to source a new body from one of those manufacturers.

If you aren't mechanically inclined, building a buggy will get you there in a hurry. I seriously doubt you'll ever find something as cobbed together as your last find was, but I'm not a betting man. I would think you'd be OK sourcing something that is already together.

I have a set of build instructions for the MANX body up on photobucket. http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u285/Oil_Eater/Corvair%20Manx/Paperwork/ The pages are named in order. You'll have to download them all and then open the pages in the right order. Hope that helps.

Jay

Jay, thanks for your help.  An older standard beetle I'm guessing is probably pre-1969?  I am fairly decent with a mig welder but thick and heavy stuff I'd probably leave to the stick welders.  Does diamond plate work well for the floor pans or should I stick with plain flat steel?  I'll keep looking for a project already started but I haven't seen much for quite a while, at least looking at the places I know to look (primarily thesamba, craigslist).  When I do find one, its gone!   Of course, if you find a good one, I'm all ears.  But I'll also keep an eye out for a beetle with good running gear and a bad body, maybe I'll get lucky.  I've been looking and waiting for several years, a bit longer shouldn't hurt me.  I have renewed faith after finding this site.  Seems like it was 98% rail buggies...  Thanks again.   Anyone else that has some ideas for me, please do!  I will look over the images you provided.

PS.  Anyone know the standard width of the chassis?  Could it roll through a double standard exterior door appx 70" or so?

Michael.

Michael,
VW sold both the Standard and Super Beetle from 1971 until 1976. For those years you will just have to look to see which it is. Good luck on your search.
Evan

So if I got a 76 (or older) standard beetle, it would still have the suspension, frame head, beam, that won't give me trouble and I can put a full size fiberglass body on it?

I dont if its been suggested yet or not, but you should look in to getting one of these books. I may not help with the buggy building, but it sure will help you understand how a VW is put together. 

http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Your-Volkswagen-Alive-Anniversary/dp/1562614800

Most Books-a-million and stores like that will carry it too.

David

I should probably share a personal favorite of mine when dealing with ACVW. http://www.vw-resource.com/mihov_index.html

Thank you so much David.  I just ordered it!  Looks like a great book from the pages it let me preview.  Thanks for the suggestion!!  I'm sure it will help me understand what I need and how to take care of it once I get it.  My goal is to be able to fix anything that may happen.  I doubt if I can rely on people in my area,... I think I'm in kind of a dead zone here in SE Missouri.  Most of the guys I see on here and around sites are in Florida, Texas, California, Arizona.. which I guess makes some sense.. much better weather for a buggy. It would be great to find someone in my area one of these days.  You hardly ever see a buggy around here unless its a rail and even those are pretty rare.  Who knows.. maybe after I get mine done I'll start some interest around here?

Thanks again!

Wow.. I just checked out that website..  That is awesome.  It's bookmarked!!  Someone put a LOT of time in putting all that into the site.  Kudos!! The only thing better would be to stuff it into a downloadable PDF file.  Beggers can't be choosers, I'm happy with it!  I guess I'm not going to have much excuse for lack of reference material!  That is great..  Thanks!!

There's also a  book on building buggies, can't remember the autor right now. It's an English author and would be great for someone just starting out. It shows everything. I'll get a name for you tonight after work.

brad

Thanks Brad!  I'm looking forward to it. 

YOU KNOW MIKE,  ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT I HAVE ALWAYS HEARD A SUPER BEATLE IS A P.O.S. SOMETHING ABOUT THE FRONT END, I HAVE SEEN BBQ GRILLS MADE OUT OF THEM, BUT HEAVEN KNOWS DONT SCREW WITH AN OLD BUG OR NEW , WHAT 79 ? !!!! SOUND LIKE YOU ARE LIKE ME AND WANT A STREET RIDE SO THE NEWER BUG CHASSIS IS THE WAY TO GO ( 71 + ). TAKE 14 AND 1/ 4 INCHES OUT AND PRE-FIT YOUR BODY AND GO FOR IT, IT REALLY IS SIMPLE IF YOU KEEP IT THAT WAY, OLD ARE TOUGHER AND NEW BUG ( not super ) IRS is more street drivable friendly, DO YOU LIVE NEAR STREET ROADS OR THE DESERT EITHER WAY YOU CAN BUILD THE H--- out of the motor and do wheel stands or stay 1500 to 1600 and cruise. IT IS ALL ABOUT HAVING FUN AND CRUISING TO ME. GREAT PEOPLE HERE ON DBA BUT IT IS ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR BUGGY, KEEP IT FUN WHAT EVER YOU DO !!!!!

Thanks Ken, so maybe something in the 70's that is a standard bug, swing axel and no Supers.

PS  I've always heard  Mexico made the same old style bug up into the 90's but I've never seen any. ??

YEA COSOMEL MEXICO IS WHAT GOT ME BACK INTO BUGGYS AGAIN ( THAT AND MY DAD PASSING ), BAHAMAS CRUISE AND DUNE BUGGYS, I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE ON LINE AND I WAS CHANGING WHAT I SAID WHEN I SAW YOUR ANSWER, I CAN TELL YOU IT, IS CHEAPER TO BUY A NICE ONE, THAN TO BUILD A NICE ONE, BUT ITS ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT, AND IT IS BETTER TO SPEND A LITTLE AT A TIME THAN ALL AT ONCE TO ME.

I definitely want a street ride.. I'm in SE Missouri, we have roads.. and trees.    I've heard that the IRS is tricky with the fiberglass body getting in the way unless some things are changed?  I was also considering making a long body for more stability on the highway.. kind of concerned my butt will get out in front of me on the short pans.  I'd like to make something pretty sporty and have some pep but not looking to race it or get 10mpg..  Thanks for the help!

I guess I will find out because I am Putting my allison daytona on a IRS chassis.

Brad, I found this one.  Would this happen to be the book you telling me about?

Building a Dune Buggy: The Essential Manual (Paperback)
by Paul Shakespeare (Author)

Hi, Sorry 'bout that, got busy and completely forgot to post a name for you. Yes, that's the one. I got it for Christmas last year and even though I was well into my project, I did find some good info in it.

I haven't found my short wheel base skitterish at all on the freeways at all. On the race course is a different story all together I did tip the beam back 10* but lost a bunch of caster when I dropped the front in the weeds. I haven't really noticed that the IRS rides any better than a swing axle. The main reason I went IRS was to get rid of all the negative camber with the back riding as low as I have it set and to make changing gear boxes easier when I blew them up .

For a street cruiser, anything will work and you'll be comfortable. The one drawback with a B/J front end is it limits how much you can use the beam to lower or raise your car before the B/J's start binding, but, dropped and raised spindles are available for drum or disk brakes and actually pretty cheap.

Some bodies weren't designed for IRS, mine included and the rear doglegs will hit on the bottom of the tub. If you can work with fiberglass it's not a big deal, but something to keep in mind when picking your body/chassis. Usually its the battery box or when in the case of a Manx and it's clones the recesses on either side of the tranny hump in the rear area.

I'd try and find a pan from a car 1962-79, earlier cars had different front tranny mounts making tranny swaps a bit of a hassle (the pre 61 cars had a non synchronized 1st gear meaning you had to pretty much come to a stop before getting back int 1st) 1961's also had a lot of year specific chassis parts. 1968+ would be your best bet as it will have all the 12 volt stuff you need for a "modern car" 1965 and earlier will be 6 volt unless upgraded and give you the early wide 5 wheels (much cooler IMO). If you find a 66-67 in good shape, don't cut it up...call me
Sorry again

Brad

Brad... Good info on the years! In addition the 1967 has some one year only specific parts to it, like the front wheel bearings being smaller than the 1968.

Jay

The 65-67 Beetles shared the same spindles with the small bearings and small tie rod ends like those on link pin cars.The 67's had mostly year specific body parts, front fenders, rear valance and deck lid, doors,as well as  emergency flasher and a couple other small items, first year as a standard 12 volt electrical (optional in 65-66). Which is why it is the most sought after year to collect.

brad

Ahh, I stand corrected then. I was told that was the only year with the smaller front bearings. I guess that would then be the only year with ball joints and small bearing. Is that correct? (Didn't they go from link to BJ in 1967?) I'm glad someone has more VW knowledge than I, LOL.

Jay

Thanks for all the great information guys.  For a first build I will definitely stick to the later models standard beetle. 
I really like the look of the shorter pan buggies but I was worried about the short wheelbase increasing the chances of the back-end coming loose.  Hmm..  A couple questions...

Do you find that there is any "airplane wing effect" on the glass bodies at highway speed making the front-end light?  By the shape of it, seems like it could.  Does anyone modify their rides to increase down force on the front?  I have read several posts on line that recommends keeping the gas tank up front and full of gas to help.  Wasn't sure about other suggestions or if they were needed on normal freeway speeds. 

Know of any good after-market gas tanks that are less apt to rupture on front impacts?

One more question, anyone heard of buying a doner in Mexico and importing it?  I found on the US Customs website that cars over 25 years old are exempt from DOT and EPA regulation for "non-conforming/non US version".. but there is some paperwork involved.

On the importing... I would think its way more trouble than its worth unless you live in San Diego... even then, there are plenty of VWs around. You won't be able to import any of the newer mexican made bugs because they don't meet the strict vehicle crash standards. I don't know if it is possible to import parts (not a whole car). If it is, then you would need to dispose of the unwanted parts down there prior to importing the parts. If you are looking in mexico for a beetle that is over 25 yrs old down there in mexico, I would say save your energy for the DMV when it comes time to register your buggy, rather then spending all your energy fighting customs and paying import tax and the like.

I haven't had any issues with the front wanting to come airborne. I've had my buggy up to speeds you won't be able to hit with a stock 1600 engine and I've had no issues whatsoever. I've driven at highway speeds and gone through numerous tanks of gas (read no weight in the front from fuel in the tank) and have had no issues.

There's not a lot of room in the front of the buggies for any trick gas tank that I know of. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to have a race shop custom make a bladder for your tank or something if you are really worried about that, but keep in mind, unless you have a full cage in your buggy, you really don't have a lot of protection around you anyway. It's much like riding a motorcycle if you ask me. I'd rather go with a smile on my face driving my buggy than not though.

Jay

I'm thinking it would probably be a paperwork nightmare the more I think about it.  I can find doners on thesamba but just about everything I find is about 600 miles or more away..  I'll keep looking. 

Glad to hear you haven't had any floating problems at speed.  Peaking my interest for a shortened pan a bit more.   I've road bikes most of my life and I can understand what you mean.  When you have a wreck, you're the first one there.  I've had countless near-misses but no actual bike wrecks so far.  Mostly because people couldn't see me.

A big crash wouldn't make any difference but a smaller one... never know.  Rather be dead than a burden to my family for 25 or 30 more years.  I guess thats something I'll have to think about.  Would I have to have a long pan buggy to have decent seat belts in the back?  I remember my old clam digger didn't have any seat belts at all front or back best I can recall.

One parts question..  If a person is in a build and needs a part but can't find a factory original (old part), can you get just about anything remanufactured if necessary?  Are there companies that make duplicate parts to replace the old ones?  Probably a silly question, but, I'd rather ask a silly question than be stuck not knowing. Hope that made sense..

I made decent rear seatbelts by welding angle iron from the top of the shock mounts to the rearmost corner in the engine compartment then went from passenger side to driver side with the angle. That gave me a solid place to bolt to in the rear seat corner.

I've always gone to bug city www.bugcity.com for all my parts. What they don't have new they can sell you used. Dave is always good about asking if you want good German or China made. You decide what you want on your buggy. They are at (860) 666-2489 (in CT) and can ship to you, so I've never considered it too difficult to get any parts. Good luck, man.... Sounds like you are going to be on the hunt for something pretty soon!

Jay

Brad, I ordered that book too.  I'm sure between both the books recommended and the great info on here I'll be more ready for the project when i find the doner.

Jay,  Thanks for the idea, I'll keep that in mind when I find the doner and start on it.  Also thanks for the website, its bookmarked!  I am already hunting.  

If anyone finds a suitable 68+ doner in the St Louis, MO south to Memphis, TN and west to Springfield, MO triangle or close, let me know.  Seems like there are a bunch in Michigan, Georgia, Florida, Oklahoma areas.  I wouldn't mind making the drive further but I'd hate to get there and look at it and find out I couldn't use it.  Especially since I don't know all the questions to ask beforehand.  I can ask how much rust it has on the chassis and if anythings been changed from original.  Anything in particular you guys recommend to ask?

Jay, 1965 was the first year for balljoint front ends.

The only time my front end became light was at speeds approacing 90 (for legal reasons I won't say if that was kph of mph You'll have to figure it out) The front fenders started to lift and steering became VERY light.

When looking for a pan make sure to check that the front beam is straight. I've seen lots of "curbed" cars that drove OK but the front beam was bent, Make sure the wheels are in the same place in the wheel well on both sides amd if you can get underneath with a straight edge, place it on the bottom tube of the beam to check.

Also make sure the engine and gear box are in good working order, these are your 2 big expences.

brad

This is showing how little I know.. but.. when you say gearbox are you talking about the ones in the wheel wells or the transmission?  I've see a couple buggies that looked like it had some sort of gear reduction boxes off the ends of the transaxle on the wheel. ???

I'm sure your speed was 60 and you had inverted dyslexia ..   lol  Point taken.  My max should be interstate and probably not often at that.  Thats a boring drive.. but a necessity at times.

I'll check those things when I can locate one.  I'll take my handy 3ft level with me.  Is it possible to straighten a beam or do you have to replace it?

gearbox = transmission

Gear reduction boxes at the end of the rear axles were commonly found on Buses.

You might be able to straighten a beam, but doubtful you'll get it back to straight as an arrow.mine was bent and I bought a straight one with lowering adjusters already welded in.

Jay

I figured it was the transmission but when I remembered those gear reduction boxes I saw on a buggy once, I wasn't sure.  I guess they used a buss trans in that buggy.  I'm learning..   I'll try to find a straight beam but for me, it may be a little hard to know for sure.  Guess thats part of the process.  Thanks guys.  I found a cheap possible doner but the engine and trans are iffy.. $700 bucks..  guy says the motor runs and trans shifts but needs a coupler.  The pic looked like the breather was off of the carb.  I'm wondering what a pan/tunnel/beam/etc is worth by itself.  Being on the safe side and assuming the rest was junk.   Thanks again!

Couplers are cheap, either take one with you of have his put one in so you can test it and hear it running. I know lots of former clients when i worked at an aircooled shop who bought "good running" engines and trannies that were pooched when they got the "minor" tune up or fix done. It won't be like new, but a decent running vehicle is what you're after.

brad
5 days with snow on the ground
only 6 months till spring

Thanks.  I have heard a couple times now about certain models that are for a single year or two year that are tough to find parts for .. like the 67 and 74 ?  Is there anywhere I could look to see a list of years with compatible parts?

I found some good runners but they are usually too nice to pick apart to steal the chassis out.

Michael, It's not so much that they would be hard to find parts for.... at least not the parts you would need for your buggy build, it's just that you would need to know when ordering the parts. There are plenty of new parts out there for rebuilding breaks, wheel bearings, replacement pans, and the list goes on.

I would honestly say not to worry about what parts fit what years. Most of the parts for VW (as far as the buggy is concerned) are interchangeable. Once you get a project there will be plenty of people helping you out with what parts would work or would interchange for the part you need.

I mean this in the nicest way possible: You might be putting the cart before the horse. The few key things to know are stay away from McPherson struts in the front (Superbeetle) and if you can find an alternator buggy (or beetle in your case) then you are a little further ahead (because an alternator is a little more efficient and will support more of your modern electronics). Any VW with a front beam (without the struts) will make a great buggy.

I knew absolutely NOTHING about VW just two years ago, but my buggy taught me along the way. You'll learn things along the way too. Don't worry about not knowing everything VW, jump in with both feet and lean on your on-line support system here on the DBA. Besides.... the only thing to do during the winter months is either build one yourself or hang out online and help other people build theirs.

Jay

Thanks Jay!  I appreciate the help.  Its good to hear that parts for certain years isn't a problem in our case.  I worry too much.    Don't worry about giving out advice that might rattle my cage a bit.. sometimes I need a shake now and then.   Besides.. I take constructive criticism very well.  I will do my best to keep the horse in front.   

Ya, What Jay said!!!

I get as much fun helping people out as I do building (almost )

If you were a few thousand miles closer I could set you up with a rolling chassis. The chassis parts are almost all the same for large amounts of years at a time 49-55, 56-60, 1961, 62-64, 65-68, 69-76. Except for front tranny mounts and a few oddball cables here and there, they are all the same, and parts are plentifull. Not that you have to buy from them, as other places are much closer, but check out CIP1.com. Their site is by far the easiest to navigate and you can see what parts are compatible and available.

Good luck and feel free to ask lots of questions we were all there once

brad

Sounds Great!  I will definitely check that site out.  I'm sure I'll have lots of questions now and again.  I'll try to do a search so I don't ask a bunch of questions that everyone has answered 100 times before.  But I didn't even know what questions to ask until I got started.  I have some feel for it now and am soaking in as much info as I can.  I get the impression that it would be better to spend a bit more for a decent running doner than find one that only has the pan/tunnel/etc left over.  I have seen a few here and there for around 1500 - 2500 that looked pretty good other than a little roughness.  One of those situations where it would be a shame to pull it apart to build the buggy.  I guess there are probably people looking for the parts that I would be removing.  If this isn't the best approach, let me know if I should stick to looking for the $700 worn out ones and just snag the chassis.

Brad, I think when I looked earlier at your profile it said Saskatchewan Canada?  That would be quite a drive from here.   Is there any time of year thats warm enough to buggy up there?

Man Im getting dizzy , no super beetle and struts, no its might not be cheaper to buy a front beam than straighten one but buy one anyway, hey Bart I will take a built engine if you have one to give away ( 100+ HP would be good ), good luck Michael get started and let us see the pictures, Jay hows the manxvair coming along ?

It does get nice up here for a while. We've already had snow for a week, which is not that ordinary. When I lived in the north (Whitehorse, Yukon and Thompson, Manitoba, both north of the 55th parrallel) it was more common. This summer was the craps we had our warmest weather in September, which was OK 'cause I didn't finish my buggy till August. I managed to get about 100 miles on the car including some freeway driving which was a blast. I'm waiting till Saturday it's supposed to be +10C (60F?) so I can get my car to my winter storage, I'll look pretty funny in a parka, gloves and helmet driving clear across town . Looks like 6 months of bad buggyin'

If you're biulding a full length car you could basically buy a rollover as all you really need is the pan and running gear. The body will only donate a few parts and then you'll have to get rid of it. So, if the fenders are flapping in the breeze, but the floors and running gear are in good order, you'll be good to go. If you have to shorten a pan, you can even get away with bad floors as these have to get cut up and rewelding is much easier on new metal. On the other hand, if the body is good you could advertise it on some place like samba and put some cash in the buggy fund. Just don't be cuttin' up any ovals or splits to make a buggy like I've seen. Oldest floor pan buggy I've seen was on a 1951 chassis, almost cried .

Remember the golden rule, when in doubt....ask. Way easier on the hairline and pocket book.

brad

Thanks everyone for all the help getting started. 

Here in Missouri we get miserable 114*F heat indexes in summer and -20*F wind chills in winter..  Gotta love the horizontal sleet and freezing rain.  But we have some time with fair weather.  My wife is from Panama where you have a choice of hot and dry or hot and wet depending on the time of year.  But as close as they are to the equator, they don't usually have the ridiculous heat indexes we get.. I guess because the oceans are only about and hour and a half apart..  Lots of good buggy weather down there.  Oddly, I never seen any.

I'm keeping an eye out for a good doner.  Soon as I can get something started, I'll drop in a pic and a note.  If I find a rare one, I'll let you know.

Golden rule noted!  for sure!