Steve, the R&P can't be flipped because it is a hypoid set... That is: the pinion doesn't enter the ring gear 1/2 way up and down. The pinion is high for the standard meshing the ring gear high. Flipping will not work as the angle cut on the gears to allow the high pinion mesh are steeper than it would have been if the pinion had entered 1/2 way up on the ring gear.

The auto pinion enters 1/2 way up on the ring gear, but the ring gear is offset to the side, so flipping the auto ring gear is not a possibility either.

Sorry to bear the bad news. There is a guy in Australia I believe who currently has his tranny in India for them to R&D a reverse rotation hypoid gear set. He has posted on the samba. Sorry I don't have a link.

Jay

I'm planning on mounting it on the backrest in the rear (engine side), I'm going to cut a hole for airflow and make a SS grill to cover the hole.  I want to keep it hidden.  No intercooler right now.  What do you think?

That may be a good place space wise, but airflow could be a problem.  The fan(s) may have to run constantly to keep it cool.  Normal airflow in that area may be opposite of what you think it is.  There have been some very "spirited" discussions about this in the past.  Tom

Barry, you are going to mount it on the engine side of the back of the rear seat? If that's the way I read it, the airflow will be from the rear to the front.... At least it is in my buggy.

Jay

what would happen if you cut out the front by your feet and let let air come in from the front?  I'm trying to keep the radiator hidden.  If not maybe try to mount the manxter dual sport wing on and mount the radiator up there...  any better ideas?

We are using the Manxter watercooled side pods on Subi powered Manxter #16 and they are working very well.  We were at the unveiling of the Manx Kick-Out SS and saw the new Manx style ducted side pods, but they did not have the depth of the Manxter pods, so I don't think a radiator could fit.  However, the traditional Manx side pods with a different side scoop might work.  Tom

Barry, cutting the "firewall" out is getting into territory not attacked before as far as I know. Occasionally I get caught in a downpour, which isn't pleasant... I can't imagine how unhappy I would be if I had a hole in the "firewall". That might be something to think about before you cut a hole.

I ended up going with a huge radiator which works with the fans, but it's not in the airflow. I have future plans to deck the rear seat area over and duct the airflow a bit better.

Jay

On a side note. Tom and Kathleen's install looked fairly complicated as far as flow balancing is concerned, so I opted to go away from that style of cooling system. Plus I didn't have side pods to hide them in. All things aside.... knowing what I know now, Their install, although a piping challenge, is very clean overall in function and form.

Jay

Thanks for the compliments Jay!  Please don't make our installation more complicated than it was.  The only flow balancing I did was to put a "T" on the lines between the radiators and let the water go to both sides. And then "T" back to the engine.  I had some advise from some old Hot Rod friends on how to make it work.  Tom

We have seen John Denmat's car in person.  The wing is a viable place to put a radiator.  It is a matter of looks.  If you like that look, go for it.  Ron Davis Racing Radiators already have a full size radiator that will fit that set-up.  John used some of the space for an intercooler and had to have a second radiator to make up the difference.  Bruce Meyers has the full size set-up in his Dual Sport off road capable car.  We have taken rides in that car, and no overheating issues there.  It would be an easier install vs what we did to #16.  I may have some pictures to help you out.  Tom

thanks Tom, pics would be great...  you wouldn't happen to have the Ron Davis part #?

I will have to dig through my pile of pictures to find the one I am thinking of.  Send me your e-mail and I will send it to you.  We are going to attend the Lake Tahoe Manx Club event in September, and will be able to get better pictures of the Dual Sport cooling system then. 

As far as the p/n for the wing mounted radiator, I would call the Meyers.  If they don't have it, and can tell you the name they used to order the radiator, Ron Davis can use that to tell you the p/n.  Tom

Hi,
Im brand new here but it really looks as though this is the place I've been looking for.

Here's the story:

1974 Porsche 914 converting to a Subaru ej20 JDM twin turbo 2.0 ltr. Engine, ECU and harness are all from the same ca. We have the engine mounted wiring run fuel hooked up etc.. We had the engine turn over and fire but not start up unless we used starting fluid. Obviously we tracked it down to a fuel issue and hopefully repaired that. (the top line is fuel in, middle line is out and bottom is evaporator right?). Here is the real problem NOW we seem to have gone backwards....no spark at the plugs. Again, we just had it firing 2 days ago but not running because of the fuel, now it won't fire at all. We have no wiring diagram for the ecu so it's really a head scratcher. I see that you had some JDM wiring diagrams. I'm hoping maybe I can get the one for my engine and located the issue.
If anyone has any ideas at all about what we've done wrong please let us know. We are open to any suggestions out there at all.
Thaks in advance to anyone willing to help.
Hope to hear from you guys soon.

Kiran

Not much help, but sometimes we have a tendency to overlook the small things. I would say maybe you have a wire pulled or maybe disconnected or something... I had a spade connector in my harness and when I tightened the clamp on my turbo engine set up, it wouldn't even start. It ended up being that wire that came undone while my hand was under there.

I can't think of anything that would have changed spark wise while swapping the fuel lines. I know the engine "bay" of the 914 well enough to know it probably isn't too fun getting your hands in there. Maybe you disturbed some wires or possibly you disturbed the VR sensor?

Jay

Hi Kiran - welcome to subbug.

I agree with Jay. To break the problem in half, does the computer know the engine is spinning? It should turn the fuel pump on while cranking.

If it turns on, the your problem lies on the ignition side.

If not, it may be a cam o crank sensor. Or of course a fuel pump issue, but the it would have started on ether.

Keep us posted! A 914 would be a blast with a TT engine. Paul...

Hello ,i,m Ron new to your site ,but not to the sport.I am currently collecting parts to do my subie twin turbo swap.Is there any body close to northeast indiana with a subie ride?here are a few pictures(still vw powered)[img][/img]

Well I am taking the plunge and putting an EJ20T into my '69 baja bug. I know this is not a dune buggy per se but anyway...
I am just tired of fiddling around with the 1776cc and dual kadrons. At least that is the excuse I am using...

My car needs alot of rust repair type work so this whole project is a bit daunting at the moment. At least the engine decision has been made and I have cemented the decision by purchasing an EMS stinger 4 and committed to buying the motor and harness from a great guy on this forum.

I am pretty much an efi and suby virgin so please forgive any future ignorant questions etc.

My first basic question is this: Does anyone have a concise list of the bare bones inputs and outputs of the stinger + ej20t combo? I would love to start getting a better understanding of how the system works (I am a mechanical engineer and eat love this kinda crap!).

I will be installing an 091 tranny and plan to use the Mackenzie's 10 degree urethane mount kit. Any feedback?

I live in Wisconsin and would like to start exploring the feasibilty of installing a simple heat and defog system. Any experience there?

Thx, Bryan

Well, the simple heat and defog system will be a breeze with a water pumper conversion. It will BLOW AWAY the aircooled version. (Pun intended)

As for the bus tranny, I can't comment, and I'm not running a Stinger.... I believe a stinger is a simplified version of the ECU and may not worry about all the parameters. I know specifically, that the stinger doesn't have warm-up enrichment. That's about the extent of my knowledge on the stinger.

Jay

New guy looking for info on swaps located in Illinois. Very excited to see we have some options in the mid-west !!! Any help would be great.

I started of with air-cooled cars when I was young and later moved to water coolers. I now own a VR6 turbo Corrado and an 83 Audi Ur quattro. I really want to get back into the older cars but want the cheaper hp the suby motor offers. This would be for a street car in a Type 3 fastback or Ghia
Thanks
Bob

Hi Bob! where in Illinois? I have an EJ20T in a buggy anda friend has and EJ25 in his both in Winfield (mine is in Itasca today at work with me!)

Another frien is almost done with his EG33 in a long travel rail in Elmhurst.

Then there is an EJ25 near Effingham. Which one is closest to you? Paul...

Thanks for the reply Paul, I'm in Springfield.  I'm up north fairly often and don't mind taking a trip down south to check out someones conversion if they don't mind. Any get togethers comming up soon ?? I'm having a hard time trying to decide what direction to go with on a new project.
Bob

I would like to make a correction to Jay H's post about the Stinger ECU.  If you program it in, the Stinger can have a warm up program. 

We have a Stinger in Kathleen's Manxter, and added an O2 sensor last year and are adding a intake manifold temp sensor.  We had a local shop do more tuning on top of the generic tune we got from Outfront, and the car is running much better.  They are going to do more work on it in April, so we will be ready for the summer season.  Tom

Tom, I,m glad to hear that my comment needs correction. When I was researching ecu's, I inquired and was told by outfront that they did not inclute a warm up enrichment feature. It was explained to me that they really didn,t need it the way it was tuned for the sand.

Glad to hear they made an improvement, and better still... glad its running better for you and kathleen!

We may get Kathleen's car out to Outfront later this year.  They have offered us free dyno tune time.  At that point they will be able to see the additions to the original programming by Rabe MotorSports, and see what it takes to have a good cold start.  It may change the progam they use on the street driven engines they sell.  Tom

My name is Mike I am In south Florida. I am Building a 67 Glitter bug from the ground up, my first. I would like to get an Idea what the cost difference is from a 1915cc to a 2.5  suby engine. I am not looking for the fasts car just fun and reliable. Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thanks ML

Before the Subaru engine in the Manxter, we had a 1915cc aircooled.  All new (good) parts cost about $3000 to build.  The Subaru conversion with all new (great) parts cost about $14,000.  Your mileage may vary.  I think people have done conversions with all used parts for about $3000 - $4000.  It depends on which ECU is used.  You will do a lot of fabrication to make the converstion.  Tom

Mike
I grabbed a 2003 Forester engine, 2.5l NA $800 for engine computer and all wiring.  Kennedy adapter plate and flywheel $ 400,  Stage 2 Pressure plate $ 150,  Jeep cherokee radiator $ 62, Mercedes Benz fuel pump assembly $45, new filter $20.  I have total in my Manx $3500 including purchase.  Non turbo is the easy way to go, If you want more add one later.

Steve in CA

I'll throw a WAG out there and say a bargain swap will need about a minimum $5K budget for a normally aspirated conversion.  I'd add about 50% more if you want a turbo version.
This is based on a used (~$1K) JDM motor, about another $500-700 to get it in running shape (seals, t-belt, w-pump, etc.), new 200mm Kennedy adapter kit and clutch, new ECU (~$1200), plus hoses, radiator and other bits for the cooling system and new exhaust system.  I find it's not the major items (like the engine, or ECU) that really drive the conversion cost - it's all the nit-picking detail items, plus all the shipping charges!

You still have to figure out how to mount and plumb the cooling system, plus extra engine mounts tying into the factory mounting points - all custom fab work.

Everybody says it's well worth it when you're finally done!  I'm not done....... 

Jeff

Agreed on motor costs, between 5 to 6 thousand, the other costs to think about is the costs for a Trans that can handle the increased torque and horsepower.

Bottom line, it was well worth it!

Wade

It is priceless.  Almost everyone who gets a ride in the Manxter says "no aircooled VW engine could ever put out power like that!".   And the best part is that the enigine (Subaru) is stock!  Tom

Hi,
Last weekend I acquired an EJ20 Turbo from Alden A.
This is my first adventure away from air-cooled VW power so please be warned I will have alot of questions. Right now, the engine is just resting peacefully on its stand. As I look at it, I realize that my main questions will be regarding plumbing.
Here is my rough plan:

1969 VW Bug (baja) used mainly for summer romps around town and some occaisional mild off-roading.
   I am currently focused on a complete rebuild...the body is off and the chassis is completely stripped. I am installing an 091 tranny using a 10 degree mount system. I am going to run Thing stub axles with Type 2 CV's and Sway-a-way axles. The suspension for now will consist of stock arms (reinforced), new shocks, and aftermarket 27mm torsion bars.

Motor: Suby EJ20T stock with EMS Stinger ECU and harness. Air to Air intercooler, IHI turbo.
Cooling: TBD

Thanks in advance for the help and advice I know you guys will offer!

Bryan

Hello my name is David and im very fortunate to have found a forum that relates to what ive always dreamed for. I own a 57 bettle with a ej20t with a EMS Stinger 4 from outfront motorsports. I would like to learn more from you guys.. ive always been fasinated with subaru cars, however i never had the money to own a 32k car.. so i begun converting my bug with the ej20t. im not mechanic saby but i do understand the basics on how an engine functions.

Good day to all,

my two brothers and i just bought ourselves 3 BRM dune buggies. one of them is the M8 basic and the other two are the M8 Long. the engines on them are the basic VW 1.3 (which is pretty disappointing) and we are looking into replacing them with a Subaru 2.2 engine, i am sure i will be needing a lot of help from you guys in next a few weeks to carry out this project..

looking forward to it and thanks in advance....

Needing help with my first Subie swap in sandrail

Hi Guys...I tried to subscribe several days ago... BUT.. I'm not good with computers and probably screwed it up.
Anyway...I scored a complete Kellison Sandpiper with a bad engine.  I'm seriously considering a Subaru engine as a replacement.  I don't know a thing about these engines, but I have been building cars for over 50 years (as a hobby) and look forward to a new experience.

I want to install a subaru engine on a warrior dune buggy, using a bug trans.

intro: Robert Hogue I live in Atascadero CA, I have a Chenoweth 4 seat buggy, currently powered by a vw 2 liter, I am wanting to swap in a subaru power plant but am not sure where to start or which engine to start with. Hoping for some advice other than outfront off road. I use my buggy in the desert mainly as the the local dunes (pismo) has been shrinking due the snow plover nesting........any who, mainly dirt but occasionally venture to the dunes mid week.

Outfront is one of the best places to get advice from, they have never steered us wrong.  It is better to spend a lot of $$ on quality parts rather than replacing junk.  They can help you to get a used engine to run just as well as one of their big buck engines.  Tom

X2 on OutFront Motorsports for getting a Subaru.  I have found them very friendly and willing to share their information.
They have been into Subaru engines for awhile and know the in and outs of what will work and what needs to be done.
I am using a stock 2.5L without turbo Subaru in my Manxter and love the power it has.  I have the shorten oil pan, modified water crossover and computer system they sell. 

There is a lot of torque to be had from a NA 2.5 L, I have a 2003 Forester 2.5L with a Delta reground cam with Microsquirt ECU= Fast.  It is in a two seater Manx and is intended for street and autocross.  I did get a lot of good info from Outfront, all work was done by myself.  I use a Kennedy adapter with a stage 2 pressure plate.  I purchased engine and ECU with all wiring for $800.  I used stock ECU for a year before adding Microsquirt,  5200 rpm compared to 7500 rpm witch is needed for autocross.  I use a type 1 Rancho with super diff, close ratio 3rd and 4th and 3.88 final drive.  I live in Seaside, CA and race at Marina Airport.

Steve

Hey everybody I have a 68 bug I have been trying to restore but decided to go the dune  buggy route, I used to own a wrx so I know them pretty well and I just picked up a Manx but there's no markings and the guy said it was the early ones that had none. I have always wanted to do this swap I just am a little confused on the transmission and cooling. I'll keep reading and post more questions also is anybody in Florida  on here.

Hello
Brad Foster manx 2 ej25 na leagacy 5 speed
in the works

Hello everybody, I'm Jamie and I live in Cowtown (Ft. Worth, Tx.).
I'm fixing to build my 2nd buggy, the first you was back in the 70's from a hand my down VW that my older brother gave me. I worked in a welding stop in high school so I went and bought a kit with all the parts and put a buggy together using the doner car parts. Thirty some odd years later I'm still in the welding shop with all kinds of fabrication experience under my belt, so I'm confident in my ability to do all the frame and metal work, but that's where my experience stops, I need help with the power plant and tranny combo. Been researching all my options and think I've figured out the frame and fixing I want. After reading everything I could find it let me to y'all, can ya help me with what it's gonna take to put a Subaru engine in my buggy.
Thanks in advance

Hello,
I ama retired US Navy veteran. My wife bought me a Sterling kit car. This kit car is mounted to a 1969 VW beetle pan. I am working on placing an 03 WRX 2.0 turbo into it with a flipped diff from subarugears.com.
I am also in a second version of this car working on a hand design V12 engine modular drivetrain.

For now I would really like to know more info on the best way to support a WRX lump in a VW chassis. I have no metal mount it to other than the trans horns, and upper shock mounts. But I want this to be mounted in very securely. I will be adding a bit more than stock HP to it.

So I look forward to hearing what you all have learned, and know on this subject.

If you use the SubaruGears mounting brackets, the engine/trans is mounted off of 3 points.  One point is the shifter end of the transaxle, the other 2 points are the stock Subaru engine mounts near the bellhousing area.  So the engine is not hanging in the off the bellhousing like a type 1 air cooled VW.  We have a STI engine hanging off the bellhousing with no issues.  Tom

Wanted Subaru Swap!!!!
Anybody interested in doing a Subaru swap for my buggy please check my ad in Samba. I'm in New Jersey and willing to bring the buggy up to 200 miles.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2129720

Hello all , im in the process of swapping out my vw motor/ tranny in my mid engine buggy for a early 90s subaru ej22 non turbo w/fwd 5sp tranny and im stuck at the engine management stage.Of course im looking for the cheapest and easiest way to do this, so should i go with the stock ecu trimmed down or aftermarket ecu or does anyone know of someone that modifies stock subi ecu for this type of swap??? HELP!!!

Hi Palbo- If you have the stock ECU and wiring harness, then yes, trim it down and run it.  You should not need to modify the stock ECU. It may throw a code for gas tank pressure or other emission related items. In my 2.2L conversions, I run the stock catalytic converter so the ECU has an O2 input for feedback.  The only problems I have experiences are a "hunting idle" where it randomly revs a bit when my foot is off the gas.

Later if you add a turbo or other performance improvements, then look at an aftermarket ECU. Pick one that is supported locally by a shop that modifies Subarus if you are not comfortable tuning engines on your own.

Can you post some pictures? I have always wanted to use a FWD 5sp tranny for a mid-engine set up. Those are hard to find.

Paul...

hello, May Nama is Sergio  living on central coast  California,  I'm  having  some  free time on weekends  . then decided to start a project, install Subaru  EJ22 or EJ20 on my just bought  sand rail.

I'm Familiar with engine, transitions  and   general car mechanics, grow up on family garage,  but it was on my youth, I'm kind of new on EFI , worst on ECU and  car electronics at this moment.
  Worldlike to ask for good information source to learn, I don't want to ask every single step. I'm looking to educate myself..

Any Impute would be appreciate,

Thank you